Out of the X

[Tenoverpar]

I watched some of the girls A and AA finals on TV, these games need to either be moved out of the X or why not consider an all championships day, then you get the rink filled to capacity for everyone. As it is, the empty X doesn't seem to be a dream filled place to play. Move it to Ritter

10 am A Girls
12 pm A Boys
2 pm AA Girls
4 pm AA Boys

[36Guy]

I watched some of the girls A and AA finals on TV, these games need to either be moved out of the X or why not consider an all championships day, then you get the rink filled to capacity for everyone. As it is, the empty X doesn't seem to be a dream filled place to play. Move it to Ritter

10 am A Girls
12 pm A Boys
2 pm AA Girls
4 pm AA Boys

The girls don't want to play at Ridder...they want to play at the X.

I like the idea of all finals day, but it will never happen, the boys season starts and ends two weeks later.

[fishfreak11]

what girls don't want to play at the Ridder? there are some that like the closer atmospere of the crowd.(and play better) it seems like a big waste of money to be playing at the X with so many seats open. i think it needs to be looked at again.(knowing the history of why it was changed to the X)
imagine the Tonka/Lakeville game being played at the Ridder and how the crowd would have been.

[MNHockeyFan]

This debate seems to come up every year. Bottom line has always been that the fans favor a smaller venue like Ridder for the atmosphere, but the players like Xcel for the experience.

[36Guy]

This debate seems to come up every year. Bottom line has always been that the fans favor a smaller venue like Ridder for the atmosphere, but the players like Xcel for the experience.

Correct....and after blog after blog about section unbalance, rankings, etc. Its "about the kids" correct?

[loki]

[quote="Tenoverpar"]I watched some of the girls A and AA finals on TV, these games need to either be moved out of the X or why not consider an all championships day, then you get the rink filled to capacity for everyone. As it is, the empty X doesn't seem to be a dream filled place to play. Move it to Ritter


If you watched the games from TV, you are part of the "problem" with the "empty X."

Your reference to "Ritter" tells me you know next to squat about girls' hockey in Minnesota.

Rest assured, the X is a dream filled place to play for girls playing hockey.

Maybe not the helicopter parents who tell their daughters how it should be, or the outsiders that think it has to be filled to capacity to be a worthy experience, but the girls that actually play the game.

By the way, does wrestling fill the X? Where is the public outcry to move it to a smaller venue?

[Goalie-Dad]

This debate seems to come up every year. Bottom line has always been that the fans favor a smaller venue like Ridder for the atmosphere, but the players like Xcel for the experience.

In the past the Girl's state was played at smaller venues. I believe the reason the Girls play at the X now is because several parents from he western suburbs filed lawsuit against MSHSL to have their girls play in the same venue as the boys.

I think 99% of the fans would rather see their daughters play in smaller venues. However it's the loud 1% parent that rocks the boat.

[Coachk]

That would of been the parents from Cloquet, that pushed for the X.

[MNHockeyFan]

In the past the Girl's state was played at smaller venues. I believe the reason the Girls play at the X now is because several parents from he western suburbs filed lawsuit against MSHSL to have their girls play in the same venue as the boys.

Just for the record the suit was filed by players and parents from Cloquet, not the western suburbs.

http://mn.findacase.com/research/wfrmDo ... DMN.htm/qx

[royals dad]

I think the attendance is not much different than it was when we were at Ridder it is just more spread out. Would be nice to see the attendance go up but I think I have sort of lost the faith that the girls game will ever be a big draw. The last time the national championships were in Ridder we could sit pretty much in any section for the semi's with the Gophs or the finals without them.

Seems to me that there are a few types of fans that go to the tourney:

Parents/Family/Students of the schools playing - You get these regardless.

Teams/Players who did not make the Tourney - You get these regardless

Youth hockey players/families - The tourney competes with playoffs so most have at least some hockey that crosses over and we miss a lot of these.

Former players/families - I dont seem to see to many of these at the tourney not sure why.

Girls Hockey fans - Seems like they hardly exist. After almost 20 years the girls game has matured but the casual hockey fans that fill the x for the boys just dont seem to go. Maybe if they found a way to do the NCAA bracket style tourney they could get some more interest.

Would be nice if the MHSL looked at trying to get more fans. I guess I would rather see them find a way to get the youth players and their families to the games. That would take Minnesota Hockey action. Then if they could find some way to generate interest from the casual fans, my daughter told me that the ratings were almost twice as good for the end of Tonka vs LN than at the start. Maybe that says there is hope that if the games were better than we might get more people. I think there still has not been a first round upset since seeding started.

[EPIC97]

Something else to consider.
Maybe there are only so many hockey fans to go around.
Consider this.
Sat. Feb. 23 Hockey schedule

Women's WCHA
2:00pm Minnesota at St.cloud Attendance 550
4:00pm Wisc at Bemedji Att. 384
6:00pm ND at UMD Att. 2098

7:00pm Mens College at Mariucci Minn. vs UMD att. 10078

Boys HS Section semi finals 32 teams playing.

8:00 pm Wild in Calgary on TV.

All this going on during the girls state 3rd place and Championship game. Maybe hockey fans are just spread thin and when they can stay home and bounce between 4 differn't MN hockey games it might be to much to ask them to pay $17.00 to watch our girl's play in person.

[sinbin]

I would hope that girls hockey can continue to grow incrementally but am certain that it will never approach the boys' popularity. Boys hockey in MN is something that is close to being unique in the nation, rivaling Texas football or Indiana basketball. Even with the historic 6-OT semi-final game (mentioned on ESPN) and Tonka's 3-peat, I think that attendance was basically flat from prior years. Tonka had competition with their boys' team sectional playoffs at the same time as the girls championship game, so this cost some fans. Having the best 8 teams at State would help the situation somewhat, but isn't the final solution, IMHO. Would a BSM/Tonka final next year draw more attendance? Certainly, but who knows by how much. Would something cheaper than a $17 ticket bring in more fans? Certainly, but that wouldn't be equitable with the boys. Not sure that there is a solution, but hopefully we can all enjoy the on-ice competition whenever and wherever it takes place.

[allhoc11]

Would something cheaper than a $17 ticket bring in more fans?

I would like to start there, how about let youth teams in free wearing their teams jersey. We are seeing declining numbers, and need to be creative in finding ways to get/keep younger girls interested in the game.

[Nostalgic Nerd]

I think this thread is a good reminder of how we as fans, parents, etc need to listen to what the kids want. We as outsiders can say they should play at Ridder for the atmosphere, but the girls are playing at times to nearly empty stands and still prefer the X. It says to me the facilities are that much better and the 'cause the boys play there too' isn't really why.

Edit: I have to commend the X too. They aren't pulling in any great numbers and they still hold the event for the leaugue.

[EZ]

Ask the girls...they all prefer to play at the X.

For about $200 you can get ice at Ridder and skate there almost any time. The only way to skate at the X is to make it to State.

It's a thrill for the girls to skate on the same sheet of ice as the pros. It's like playing baseball at target field or football in the dome. I don't think that these venues would be filled either for the kids, but the kids would love it.

Heck I would love to play at any of these 3 venues!

[Goalie-Dad]

In the past the Girl's state was played at smaller venues. I believe the reason the Girls play at the X now is because several parents from he western suburbs filed lawsuit against MSHSL to have their girls play in the same venue as the boys.

Just for the record the suit was filed by players and parents from Cloquet, not the western suburbs.

http://mn.findacase.com/research/wfrmDo ... DMN.htm/qx

Thanks for the information. Not picking on western suburbs, just trying to rely on memory.

[Bandy]

I mentioned this in another thread, but it bears repeating.

Part of the reason for poor attendance is bias by hockey dads. Some of the very individuals who encouraged--or allowed--their little Natalies to play the game are apathetic about the biggest thing for girls in this great State of Hockey: The High School Girls Hockey Tourney.

Not all dads, to be sure. But I think there a significant percentage.

I know more than a few dads that are rabid gopher men's fans, rabid Wild fans, and attend the Boys tourney out of reverence for the boys game and the tradition of the tourney. But they could care less about the Girls tourney unless their girl is playing in it. Maybe watch it on TV, but hardly make the commitment to drive down to the X, pay the admission, and commit an evening or weekend to watching the Girls big dance. The same dads are just as apathetic about bringing their daughters to Gopher women's games.

Come on dads, you know you're out there. If you treat the girls / women's game like it's a second class citizen compared to the men's game, believe me: Your daughters are getting that message lound and clear.

How 'bout a little more enthusiasm?

[luckyEPDad]

For about $200 you can get ice at Ridder and skate there almost any time. The only way to skate at the X is to make it to State.

This is incorrect. I've been at the River Center many times when the ice was being used by some private party. Last year EP U14 girls had their season kickoff skate at the X. Regular Joe's can buy ice at the X.

As for caring about the venue, I asked my daughter about that and her list of priorities was:

1. Playing for state championship
2. Getting out of school
3. Staying at a hotel with friends
4. Free stuff
5. Getting away from parents
6. Game broadcast on TV
...
99. Playing at the X

Sure, she'd rather play at the X than Ridder, but it has nothing to do with prestige or locale. The X facilities are nicer and they have better vendors.

[Tenoverpar]

Lots of good stuff on this thread. The premise of my thoughts in starting it were based solely on the emptiness of the rink and how dead it seemed compared to the boys tournament. Playing in front of an ample crowd brings energy to the ice or any court/rink/game/field/whatever....and it just seemed to be lacking for these games.

[woogieboogiewoogie]

By the way, does wrestling fill the X? Where is the public outcry to move it to a smaller venue?[/quote]

Over 15,000 fans at the X last night to watch the State Wrestling Championship.. It's like that every year. So why would anyone want to move it?

http://stmichael.patch.com/articles/wre ... ampionship

[MNHockeyFan]

Maybe they should have had the women's Frozen Four at the X, or at least Mariucci.

http://www.gophersports.com/sports/w-ho ... 13aaa.html

[sinbin]

I asked my daughter if she wasn't playing at State if she would want to watch the games live at the X and she said yes. I would probably not watch all 3 games, but would certainly be happy to watch the state championship game. The cost isn't horrendous, there's ample parking, you can sit anywhere you want, and there are plenty of local establishments available for pre-game meetings with friends and colleagues. Yes, there should be more interest (i.e., physical attendance) by hockey dads and hockey moms alike. I haven't done an actual count, but it does seems to me that I see just as many dads at regular season and playoff games as I do moms, so I'd say our dads are incredibly involved (not only attending games, but coaching and managing youth teams, serving on boards, etc.).
I do like the idea of giving youth players free admission (I would add - with paid adult admission) since you'd still make out on concessions and build adult attendance at the same time. Of course, this isn't "equal" to the boys, since you could never give away that many free tickets to the boys' games, so someone would likely grouse about that, but there do seem to be things that can be done to incrementally build attendance.

[Bandy]

... Yes, there should be more interest (i.e., physical attendance) by hockey dads and hockey moms alike. ... so I'd say our dads are incredibly involved (not only attending games, but coaching and managing youth teams, serving on boards, etc.). ....

sinbin, I agree with you on all counts. I want to parse our statements on more interest by hockey dads a bit.

I agree they are involved. Most of our girls are in this sport because dads played at some level, and loved the sport, and got them involved at a young age. I know plenty of girls that didn't follow this pathway too--they got into hockey because of a friend, older sibling, or maybe the bug just bit them at the right time. But I'd say most got into it because of dad's love for the game.

I'm not trying to cast hockey dads as evil here--I agree they give a lot in terms of coaching, board membership, and especially at the young levels just taking their girl to the park and teaching them how to skate.

But I have seen these same dads that passionately serve their daughter's team & organization., say they're going to the gopher game. When I ask "men's or women's?" they roll their eyes.... Men's, of course. Same deal with the state high school tournament. Boys tourney is our version of Hoosiers hoops. Girls tourney? Not so.

Showing girls some models of what they can aspire to, at a young age, is a powerful thing.

[Gov78]

Probably going to get some flames but I've said this for years, where are the moms?

A big part of the problem with attendance at "most" womans/girls sporting events is very few women attend unless they know someone participating. Men will attend an event even when they have no connections but it's not the same for women.

I don't disagree that men aren't active followers of girls sports but if you want to drive attendance females other than mom/sisters/grandma need to start showing for games where they don't know the players as they do that today for boys games.

With all that said I just don't see it happening, girls hockey has reached a bit of a peak as even the big associations aren't adding players as most still have 2 teams at each level (U10, U12, and maybe U14). You'll continue to add teams from smaller associations but I don't growth beyond that.

[allhoc11]

Probably going to get some flames but I've said this for years, where are the moms?

A big part of the problem with attendance at "most" womans/girls sporting events is very few women attend unless they know someone participating. Men will attend an event even when they have no connections but it's not the same for women.

I don't disagree that men aren't active followers of girls sports but if you want to drive attendance females other than mom/sisters/grandma need to start showing for games where they don't know the players as they do that today for boys games.

With all that said I just don't see it happening, girls hockey has reached a bit of a peak as even the big associations aren't adding players as most still have 2 teams at each level (U10, U12, and maybe U14). You'll continue to add teams from smaller associations but I don't growth beyond that.

Good point, and I'd go a step further, where are the former players? We have almost 20 years of former players, and you rarely see them at the game unless they are coaching, or a year or two removed from a program that is participating. It's all our job to promote and grow the game.