Irondale

Nevertoomuchhockey · Post by **Nevertoomuchhockey** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:10 am

Saw this team play tonight. Aside from the impressive score (14-0) against a noticeable slower and clearly frustrated team - at least tonight - I was pleasantly surprised to see the quickness, passing game, and marked on ice communication from these girls. I've never seen them play and don't think I've read anything about them here. I'm sure they aren't winning by these margins very often (who is?) but they have a respectable record. Thoughts?

HockeyDude13 · Post by **HockeyDude13** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:57 am

They have made it to State 3 of the last 5 years and have a roster filled with experienced players. One D1 player leads them but they have many other girls that can put the puck in the net. Last year their goalie played out of her mind in the sections to take the 6th seeded Knights to State. They are not as deep as the top teams, but if she plays like she did last year they can make it to state again this year and maybe pull off an upset or two.

Tigers33 · Post by **Tigers33** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:11 am

They are a good hockey team that doesn't play the greatest schedule in the world. Through 11 games they have one decent win against mounds view. After that not much.

I know this topic comes up a lot and it doesn't bother me when a team wins 14-0. The problem that I have is your D-1 defenseman gets an assist on the 13th goal with 4:40 left in the game, which happenede to be a power play goal.

So in a game that they outshot their opponent 64-9, they felt they needed to secure the victory with ther top power play group winning 12-0 already late in the third period. To me that's classless by their coach.

I am sure knight7 will have a great response to this. FYI this has nothing to do with the kids. It's about the coach.

HockeyDude13 · Post by **HockeyDude13** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:34 am

He might tell you the D1 player is a center and only plays the point on the powerplay...

In the third period, they scored 6 goals. One player scored her second goal of the season. The other five goals scored in the third period were the first goals of the season by five different players.

Maybe this explains why the D1 player was out there getting assists in the 3rd period....

Nevertoomuchhockey · Post by **Nevertoomuchhockey** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:39 pm

Anyone care to share who, or at least where, this D1 player is and college commit? Didn't know her name. Obviously recognized her talent.

HockeyDude13 · Post by **HockeyDude13** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:17 pm

I thought you were at the game? Hard to miss her as she plays about 60-70% of the game. Samantha Donovan, Brown University

Nevertoomuchhockey · Post by **Nevertoomuchhockey** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:19 pm

I meant where is she going. Obv who it was during the game. Thx for info

AAA Dad · Post by **AAA Dad** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:24 pm

NTMH
Really ! You were not at game with that in depth take on the matchup!!
Losing Respect!!

Nevertoomuchhockey · Post by **Nevertoomuchhockey** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:27 pm

PM to AAA Dad (Sam's dad?)

hockeyfan87 · Post by **hockeyfan87** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:29 am

Tigers33 wrote:They are a good hockey team that doesn't play the greatest schedule in the world. Through 11 games they have one decent win against mounds view. After that not much.

I know this topic comes up a lot and it doesn't bother me when a team wins 14-0. The problem that I have is your D-1 defenseman gets an assist on the 13th goal with 4:40 left in the game, which happenede to be a power play goal.

So in a game that they outshot their opponent 64-9, they felt they needed to secure the victory with ther top power play group winning 12-0 already late in the third period. To me that's classless by their coach.

I am sure knight7 will have a great response to this. FYI this has nothing to do with the kids. It's about the coach.

I had the misfortune of seeing the third period of this game. I have absolutely no horse in this race, so save your cheap shots. I was up at the Super Rink to watch some of the U16 game that was being played on rink 7 (Dallas Stars vs Columbus), and when I was walking back to the front of the complex I happened to walk through the rink where SLP was playing Irondale.

It was between the second and third period and the score was already 8-0, and there was a delay before the start of the period, as SLP was not back on the ice yet. I saw a couple of parents I know from SLP and asked what was going on, and they told me that their goalie was hurt, and they had to try and get a backup goalie dressed.

I stuck around to watch the third period. As a hockey coach, it was embarrassing for me to watch. I expected to see Irondale just kind of run the third period out, as they were scoring on about every other shot...maybe play their third line. There was no JV game that night, so they could have played their third line and top JV line for the entire third period. I didn't have a program in hand, but when you see the team Captains out the entire period, and out on late power plays with a 12 or 13 goal lead, that is pretty classless.

I don't even know the Irondale coach, but after that display, I have ZERO respect for the guy! I know, everyone will respond with, "He is a great guy", "He is a great coach", etc. Perhaps he is, but the display he put on Saturday demonstrates a severe lack of class! Obviously, Irondale is a very good team, but what is the point of embarrassing another team that way. What a 10-0 finish just wasn't good enough??

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:38 am

Many HS coaches keep their top line and/or PP#1 in the game even in a lopsided game. Boost the stats on HockeyHub ?

Maybe stats should not count in games decided by more than 6 goals. Just like the hattrick and playmaker patches they issue when younger.

Tigers33 · Post by **Tigers33** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:40 pm

Do the stats matter to a kid committed to Brown?

Knight7...quiet on this topic?

powerplayer · Post by **powerplayer** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:57 pm

Myself, like hockeyfan87 have "no horse in this race" however, when I saw the score of this particular game I was horrified and hoping that there was some discussion on this forum about it. Who beats a team 14-0 and keeps all their top players in until the end? IMO the coach should stop worrying about padding his players stats (sorry 8 points in one game...really...) and worry about how CLASSLESS he looks to others. My daughter's team has been on the same end as SLP and it is not fun. Isn't that what hockey is supposed to be about for these girls? I am sure the SLP girls were not having fun. Shame on you Irondale:-(

powerplayer · Post by **powerplayer** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:07 pm

My bad. 7 points in SLP 14-0 game, 8 points in the Duluth 10-1 game. Really??? And here is the thing that bothers me, I think she is a great player but come on coach enough already. How about giving another girl some playing time. UGH, ANGRY!

AAA Dad · Post by **AAA Dad** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:23 pm

I think the Wayzata thrashing of winless Rosemount 15-0 was just like it or worse. Shots 65-4. 8 goals in 3rd period one with less than 1:30 left. A top player from Wayzata got 3 of her 6goals in the 3rd and other top players got points late. Classless by the coach for sure!!

Just my opinion what do you think Great OZ??

Don't Poke The Bear · Post by **Don't Poke The Bear** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:38 pm

Seems like a perfect opportunity for a coach to give more ice time to the second and third lines -- fourth, if you have one -- as well as to give players who don't get to be on the PP/PK a chance to play in these situations. I think too often coaches' egos get in the way and/or the top players are kept on the ice to increase their chance of playing college hockey and/or a bid for Ms. Hockey.

sinbin · Post by **sinbin** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:44 pm

This may be a loaded question, but are Ms. Hockey voters smart enough (or do they care enough) to see through this stuff?

royals dad · Post by **royals dad** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:28 pm

sinbin wrote:This may be a loaded question, but are Ms. Hockey voters smart enough (or do they care enough) to see through this stuff?

They have in the past. Thinking back the last 6 or 7 that I have watched point totals have usually not been the biggest factor. An argument could be made that it is often won or lost at the X but not so much in the third period vs SLP or a lower half section 1A team.

That said the kid being talked about here is probably pretty hard to drag off the ice, I have seen her skate 4 or 5 OS games in a row because kids no showed and she loves to skate. I could see her begging to go back out to set up some third liner for a first goal. Do I like it or think it is right, no but don't blame a good kid/player and don't call her dad out for comments. Put your name and number in the post and ask for him to call you back. Open up a thread to talk about it general if you want to get your opinion out on how to approach third periods in blow outs.

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:00 pm

royals dad wrote:Open up a thread to talk about it general if you want to get your opinion out on how to approach third periods in blow outs.

Or go back and read threads for the last 5 years discussing this same issue!

Nimrod · Post by **Nimrod** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:58 pm

My two cents. Lets start with the player in question and her father are not the problem. I suppose she could refuse to play but this is a much bigger issue than that. It happens several times a week across the state. Look at the HUB and the top scorers, none of them would be there if they weren't put on the ice when their team was dominating against a poor team. Yes, some get points every game but the 4 to 8 point games that put them near the top are not against good teams.

There are lots of potentially good reasons for throwing those kids on the ice during a blow out. Maybe the power play needs to be refined. Maybe they shouldn't be penalized for being good. Maybe they are needed to allow others to get their only goal of the year. Maybe the coach feels they are needed to give their goalie a shutout that will lead to college or post season recognition. And for those that say she or they have a college opportunity locked in, it doesn't end there. Their future coach wants to see her finish strong in HS. if you drop off maybe you drop from 1st line to 3rd or 4th in their eyes. And of course there are All State and Ms. Hockey considerations too. Despite what anyone says, every post season award includes a summary of how many goals and assists someone had. Its not as simple as some people think.

In a perfect world a coach plans for the future and tells his/her players that he/she will even out the ice time when he can. Unfortunately it doesn't go that way in most cases. Having said all that, I will admit that the term "no class" rings a bit true in many cases. But I remain hopeful that there is more to this than padding stats. I sincerely hope that all coaches put thought into over playing their favorites.

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:34 am

Nimrod wrote:My two cents. Lets start with the player in question and her father are not the problem. I suppose she could refuse to play but this is a much bigger issue than that. It happens several times a week across the state. Look at the HUB and the top scorers, none of them would be there if they weren't put on the ice when their team was dominating against a poor team. Yes, some get points every game but the 4 to 8 point games that put them near the top are not against good teams.

There are lots of potentially good reasons for throwing those kids on the ice during a blow out. Maybe the power play needs to be refined. Maybe they shouldn't be penalized for being good. Maybe they are needed to allow others to get their only goal of the year. Maybe the coach feels they are needed to give their goalie a shutout that will lead to college or post season recognition. And for those that say she or they have a college opportunity locked in, it doesn't end there. Their future coach wants to see her finish strong in HS. if you drop off maybe you drop from 1st line to 3rd or 4th in their eyes. And of course there are All State and Ms. Hockey considerations too. Despite what anyone says, every post season award includes a summary of how many goals and assists someone had. Its not as simple as some people think.

In a perfect world a coach plans for the future and tells his/her players that he/she will even out the ice time when he can. Unfortunately it doesn't go that way in most cases. Having said all that, I will admit that the term "no class" rings a bit true in many cases. But I remain hopeful that there is more to this than padding stats. I sincerely hope that all coaches put thought into over playing their favorites.

All great points, Nimrod, well said. There is no one explanation (or justification) that fits all mismatches that result in lopsided scores.

powerplayer · Post by **powerplayer** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:34 am

Hockey is a team game not an individual game. All star team, Ms. Hockey sounds individual to me. If it is true that girls make the All star team and Ms. Hockey because of their stats that is sad IMO. Running up the score on a team while still playing your best players just to get a spot on the All star team or Ms. Hockey votes is pathetic. Also you don't have to have the most points to get a D1 or D3 look, plus the HUB stats are only as good as the person imputing them. Lots of mistakes, IMO.

Sparlimb · Post by **Sparlimb** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:38 pm

I had a daughter who played for Irondale recently and I have a lot of respect for the coaching staff. I don't recall ever witnessing a game in which I thought they ran up the score. Irondale often had a 4th that lagged far behind and they would get very regular shifts in many 3rd periods. Sometimes you can't help that your team is so much better. Hill-Murray's jv team has won their last 3 games by a combined score of 52-0. That certainly isn't a coach playing their all-stars (they'd be on varsity). Those games aren't fun to watch on either side nor to play in. So you just do your best to get through them and back to teams that can challenge you.

D6 Girls Fan · Post by **D6 Girls Fan** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:10 pm

There are lots of teams who put first liners in late in the game, or even run first power play. I happen to think it's a shame, if you're up two or three you can afford to run out the third line, even on power play.

Look at some of the lopsided scores already in tonight. Some of the State's leading scorers rolling it up deep in the 3rd.

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:31 pm

D6 Girls Fan wrote:I happen to think it's a shame, if you're up two or three you can afford to run out the third line, even on power play.

Don't quite agree that a two (or even a three) goal lead is enough to relax until it's very late in the game. Witness last year's Section 6AA final, when Benilde-St. Margaret's had a two goal lead over Minnetonka, more than half-way through the third period. In that game they didn't play their 3rd and 4th liners at the end and still lost the right to go to State. And I'm pretty sure in the history of Minnesota girls hockey there have been greater comeback wins than this one.