Lack of feeder programs

mathrunner · Post by **mathrunner** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:15 pm

I mention this in my post about AHA. From my limited knowledge, private schools don't have the bantam, and lower, level play that public do. Many have bashed private schools as a whole for taking from other programs, but if all kids kept with the program they started with, there wouldn't be private school hockey teams, unless these kids started playing in high school. Correct?

Neutron 14 · Post by **Neutron 14** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:34 pm

MAHA and the MSHSL are not affiliated. Seperate entities entirely. Blake has a bantam program, (B level) and I think their high school starts at the eighth grade. Most high schools start at the ninth, so they would have only one year class to make the bantam team.

EREmpireStrikesBack · Post by **EREmpireStrikesBack** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:35 pm

Technically, public schools don't have bantams or youth programs either. The youth programs are completely separate from the HS programs. Check out the link I posted in Best HS Coaches and read that. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> Elk River AA State Champions- 2001 Boys & 2004 Girls

Neutron 14 · Post by **Neutron 14** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:38 pm

you're slowing down ER... Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... 14>Neutron 14</A> at: 12/28/05 3:18 pm

EREmpireStrikesBack · Post by **EREmpireStrikesBack** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:51 pm

Yeah, you and your damn quick fingers <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/devil.gif ALT=":evil"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> Elk River AA State Champions- 2001 Boys & 2004 Girls

mathrunner · Post by **mathrunner** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:25 am

Okay, so are they totally seperate or not? Everyone always talks about going up through the ranks and staying with your program. If they're totally seperate, why are people trying to claim this? And even if they're not, what are they saying about every school except Blake that doesn't have a Bantam team? And even then, those Bantam kids can't start younger, and "work their way up".

EREmpireStrikesBack · Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:59 am

Obviously when you have something like Eden Prarie Youth Hockey and Eden Prarie High School, you would expect that the youth players would play at the high school. But they are not connected whatsoever. Warroad HS is just as "connected" (for lack of a better term) with Eden Prarie Youth Hockey. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> Elk River AA State Champions- 2001 Boys & 2004 Girls

RLStars · Post by **RLStars** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:15 pm

Lets say you have a 4-5 year old and you live in Warroad. Your little "Gretzky" starts learning to skate in the Warroad Youth Hockey Association while attending the Warroad public school system. As they enter into 7th grade, they are eligible to participate in HS Varsity sports. Very few 7,8,9th graders play Varsity hockey, so they stay with the youth hockey. In Mn, youth hockey starts at Mites (Mini-Mites, Termites etc.) and ends at Bantams in most communities. Bantam age kids are typically 8th and 9th graders. At the end of Bantams, most will move onto the Varsity/JV team that their HS has. Some go to a U16 team or Junior gold, others to Junior B. The "Going thru the ranks" that most people talk about is what is outlined above and the stir is caused when the Warroad Mite plays Warroad Youth Hockey, then transfers or relocates to a private school that does not have a local community youth hockey association. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... RLStars</A> at: 12/29/05 12:16 pm

EREmpireStrikesBack · Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:25 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>The "Going thru the ranks" that most people talk about<hr></blockquote> Yes, I know what they mean. But who's to say that AHA isn't part of the Richfield "community youth hockey association"? If they were going somewhere else to play say Junior Gold, then I can see the problem with "crossing ranks" because they switched associations. Private schools don't have youth hockey associations, but neither do public schools. I can totally see some people's thinking and views on it and I understand that, but there just isn't a solid connection or "gateway" from the youth hockey to the high school because they aren't interconnected. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> Elk River AA State Champions- 2001 Boys & 2004 Girls

RLStars · Post by **RLStars** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:55 pm

I'm not going to get pulled into this debate. But I think that the "crossing ranks" from the local community youth hockey program to a private school is geared more to players from other communities going to a private school. In other words, maybe not so much from the Roseville community, since AHA is located in that community. But what about a kid who grows up in the Mound community. He plays Mound youth hockey and can attend and play for the Mound Varsity, but transfers to AHA in his sophomore, junior or senior year. I'm not saying its wrong mind you. I don't know about alot of the Private schools in the metro, but there are Private High Schools that also have Elementary and Junior High Schools that are associated with them and the kids that go to those schools play youth hockey for the community they live in. Everyone in that youth hockey association already has a good idea where these kids will be attending High School. FYI, the nearest Private school with HS Hockey is located about 40 miles from our community and we would have to open enroll and transport our kids to go there. I'm pretty sure that we would be seen as "crossing ranks" by the local community if we would send our kids to that Private school. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... RLStars</A> at: 12/29/05 12:56 pm

EREmpireStrikesBack · Post by **EREmpireStrikesBack** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:03 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>but transfers to AHA in his sophomore, junior or senior year<hr></blockquote> That's a different story. Sophomore year isn't bad, but junior & senior year is abadoning IMO. That's part of the "beauty" of it all though, you aren't required to go to any certain place. If you choose to transport and pay the $, then it is your right to be able to attend the school in which you choose. I didn't mean to turn this into a debate, I was just trying to inform that youth programs are in no way connected to HS programs and vice versa. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> Elk River AA State Champions- 2001 Boys & 2004 Girls

RLStars · Post by **RLStars** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:04 pm

Right back at ya.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)">

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:14 pm

About a week from your trip up north? Are you making the trip? If so, I'll see you at the rink.

RLStars · Post by **RLStars** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:22 pm

I'm planning on it. I'll be looking for the Minnesota Hockey jacket if I go.

mathrunner · Post by **mathrunner** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:53 pm

Saying that AHA would be part of Richfield is bogus. So, then STA is part of Mendota Heights, right? You look at the enrollment at these private schools and the numbers of people from the city the school is in probably isn't above 20%. There is a public school in just about every city and about ten private schools for the whole metro and most are closer to the cities, so they draw from all over. Kids come from Chanhassen, Eden Prairie, Mahtomedi, Lakeville, the list goes on, and to try to say that only kids from Richfield can play denies the whole school that priveledge, even those who aren't tranfers.

EREmpireStrikesBack · Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:02 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>to try to say that only kids from Richfield can play denies the whole school that priveledge<hr></blockquote> When the hell did I try to say that? I know that there aren't many private schools and that is part of the reason that people have such a problem with them is because they draw from all over. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> Elk River AA State Champions- 2001 Boys & 2004 Girls

mathrunner · Post by **mathrunner** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:51 am

I'm not attacking you at all, just saying as a general statement. I see many people come from a private school, and when you try to attack and take away the personal accomplishments just cuz they went to the private school, that's not fair.

Kodiak · Post by **Kodiak** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:08 pm

There's also the question of numbers. Say your bantam program has four teams... A, B1, B2, and C. Even if each team has 15 kids... 3 lines, 4 D, and 2 goalies (hypothetical situation here), that puts 60 hockey players in grades 10 and 11 as these kids advance into high school. You can suit up 20 kids in high school, so that's 40 a school can have in their program. Say there are 10 seniors out for hockey in this school, making the number of kids out for hockey in grades 10-12 an even 70, meaning that 30 of these kids are going to be cut. I know that a lot of kids don't even bother going out for High School hockey because they've always been on the "C" team and don't think they have a shot, but if they go to a smaller, private school, a lot of these guys will have a chance to play high school hockey and develop as a player. I'm not necessarily talking about Holy Angels or Hill here, but St. Agnes/Bernards/Croix/Concordia, Minnehaha, SPA, Providence, Holy Family, even St. Thomas, Cretin... schools like these can really benefit from kids who know they'll have a chance to play High School hockey. Even teams like Breck and Blake aren't full of superstars created by other programs, they develop the talent that comes to the school, whether it be a kid who has always been an "A" player, or a perenial "C"er, and make them into smart hockey players. You may not notice these guys in the stat leaders, but they are there, helping out. I'm sure Eden Prairie cut 10 players that could play varsity at any of the schools listed above (hell, players cut from Lake teams this year could probably win 1A... no offense), and I think that these kids should take advantage of that opportunity, especially if they want to play high school hockey. Even kids who will be stuck on JV until their senior year would benefit from going to a small, private school... quite a few JV teams would run it up on the "bottom half" of the state's varsity teams. They could go be a great player at Minnehaha, getting their name in the paper for 3 years, rather than playing one season of varsity hockey at Apple Valley, barely getting noticed outside of that program. Apologies for long winded rambling... sometimes the mind works faster than the fingers.

mathrunner · Post by **mathrunner** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:14 pm

I never thought of it in that way, which even adds to my point. To add to your comment about JV, STA JV was 1st in State last year. Not sure how the JV system works or anything, but they seem to be doing well this year again, won the schwan's cup.

Kodiak · Post by **Kodiak** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:27 pm

Mathrunner, Do you know how many of StA's JVers played bantam B in West St. Paul or elsewhere last year? I'd be willing to bet that most of those kids were not "A" players and were probably slated to be cut from Henry Sibley, but now have the opportunity to play on a very good high school team.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:21 pm

Kodiak, you are right on but not the best example. Because so many kids go to HM, STA, Cretin and AHA from that area, Sibley hasnt been a very difficult squad to make lately. So really, kids who wouldnt otherwise make the Sibley squad get a chance because of the players who end up in private schools. But your point is valid, whether its in reverse or not, the presence of private schools offer more kids an opportunity.

Kodiak · Post by **Kodiak** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:51 pm

Yeah, bad example with Sibley, although I think they have gotten most of the A kids from WSP in recent history... of course their B teams may have been better than the A's. You got what I was trying to say though. A lot of these kids wouldn't be playing high school hockey if it were not for the private schools... kids that maybe didn't develop quickly, or got a bad reputation within the community for whatever reason, etc... It's all about the kids having good experiences in school and athletics anyway.

mathrunner · Post by **mathrunner** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:31 pm

I don't get what you're trying to say. Fine take some kids who didn't make it in the city and they automatically are the best team in state? I don't care if it's JV, bantam, or whatever level or sport you're playing at, you can't try to make an excuse for a team being the best. Just like people are trying to make excuses for AHA being so good. Officially they tied Centenial, so they won't have a perfect record. The point of high school first and formost is to educate, you can't try to take that away.

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