Fasching, Kloos, Skjei - Highschool Road to the Gophers

[nahc]

Interesting that these 3 young guns took differant paths to get to the Gophers. Kloos stayed all 4 years in highschool. Skjei played with the US development team and I believe Fasching play juniors for a couple years while still in highschool. I guess my question is could Skjei and Fasching have attained the same goal as making the Gophers is they would have stayed all 4 years in highschool? Each player is totally differant but gosh they all have great skills and are so fun to watch..!!

A lot of hockey knowledge on this board........... your thoughts??!!

[observer]

Pretty sure Fasching has a late 95 birthday and played high school as a 9th grader. Must have accelerated his schooling while at the NTDP for 2 years before joining the Gophers. Could still be a senior at Apple Valley if
I'm not mistaken.

[Bonin2121]

The incorrect information is strong in this one

[Sats81]

Kloos is a late 93 and played HS through his Sr year in 2012 and won Mr. Hockey at Lakeville South. He then played a year of jrs last year in the USHL for Waterloo and was the 2nd leading scorer in the league.

Brady is a early 94 who played HS through his soph year at Lakeville North and then played 2 years in Ann Arbor, then went to the U as a true freshman. Had he stayed in HS he would have graduated in 2012.

Fasching is a mid 95 who did play HS hockey as a freshman and soph at AV then went to Ann Arbor for 2 years and is playing as a true freshman at the U. Had he stuck in HS he would have graduated from AV in 2013.

All three great players, all three very different players. Brady was a 1st round pick in 2012 for NYR, Hudson slid to the 4th round last year and was picked up by LA and Kloos was snubbed 2 years in a row in the draft and if he continues to play the way he has lately and next season he will likely be a very sought after NHL free agent.

All 3 took diff paths to where they are, but I think all 3 would still be where they are currently even if they changed their route. Just my 2 cents

[MrBoDangles]

Me and fn'song are under the impression that these boys would have done great going any route.

One upper class-man for the Gophers is just starting to show flash and he played jrs since he was 15.

What beef do the scouts have with Kloos?

[Gopher Blog]

I think the real question isn't whether they would have made it but how quickly/easily they would have transitioned into the college game as 1st year players.

Considering their draft status, it is likely that both Skjei and Fasching would not have played a year of USHL after HS like Kloos did. Therefore, you have to project how effective those two would have been as a freshman right out of MNHS hockey vs. how they actually performed as freshmen out of the NTDP. Personally, I think the NTDP advanced their game more than what they would have had in HS and made them more prepared for college hockey as an 18 year old freshman. Not that they both couldn't have made it as 18 year olds if they stuck to MNHS through their senior year... but I don't think they would have been as effective as first year players.

[Sats81]

Me and fn'song are under the impression that these boys would have done great going any route.

One upper class-man for the Gophers is just starting to show flash and he played jrs since he was 15.

What beef do the scouts have with Kloos?

That's a great question?!! A lot of people will be quick to say "size" but there are similar sized players who IMO Kloos' skillset is better than that have been drafted (Cammy, Grant Besse, Jake Guentzel, etc) There was an undersized kid by the name of Martin St. Louis who went undrafted twice and turned into a pretty good hockey player! At the end of the day the object of the game is to put the hockey puck into the net and Kloos has been a high end, prolific offensive player since he was 12 years old. At every level he has had his naysayers, yet he CONTINUES to shut them up. Pee Wee to Bantam, Bantam to HS, HS to USHL, USHL to D1. We are talking about a kid who didn't even make the 15's out of bantams after putting up some 200+ pts against top bantam competition, a player who scored over 100 POINTS as a HS senior against a very difficult schedule with EVERY single coach keying in on him. I am certain this trend will continue. Bottom line is there is something you can't measure called heart and hockey IQ and he has an abundance of both. Reminds me a lot of JT Brown coming up through the ranks who was another undrafted kid that is getting along fine in TB now after being an excellent player for UMD for 2 yrs. Sometimes as a undrafted player it works out better anyway. Ask Nate Schmidt!

[bsmguy]

I agree that the reason Kloos is undrafted is not just size (although that is part of it).

The big reason he ws not drafted in 2012 is that the NHL does not trust numbers that come out of the MN high school schedule. (think Everson Guenztel, Besse first time,etc) So he did not get drafted the first time around.

Then he had a great year in the USHL. However, he was very comparable in skill and size to his linemate Cammy. But Kloos is two years older than Cammy (93 v. 95). From an NHL standpoint, its a no brainer. You take the "same player" who is two years younger. When you watch the NCAA next weekend, remember that Kloos and Rocco Grimaldi are the same age. Which one is closer to NHL ready?

So a great player has to wait. I think it will pay off for him eventually, because he is truly exceptional. By being undrafted, he can pick a team that has a need for his skills.

[Sats81]

I agree that the reason Kloos is undrafted is not just size (although that is part of it).

The big reason he ws not drafted in 2012 is that the NHL does not trust numbers that come out of the MN high school schedule. (think Everson Guenztel, Besse first time,etc) So he did not get drafted the first time around.

Then he had a great year in the USHL. However, he was very comparable in skill and size to his linemate Cammy. But Kloos is two years older than Cammy (93 v. 95). From an NHL standpoint, its a no brainer. You take the "same player" who is two years younger. When you watch the NCAA next weekend, remember that Kloos and Rocco Grimaldi are the same age. Which one is closer to NHL ready?

So a great player has to wait. I think it will pay off for him eventually, because he is truly exceptional. By being undrafted, he can pick a team that has a need for his skills.

Yes, but Besse was drafted last year in 2013 after playing a MN HS schedule....The draft is a crapshoot anyway. Such an extremely low % of players drafted will never even suit up for an NHL game....people don't realize this.

Grimaldi is an early 93, Kloos is a very late 93.

[SuperStar]

The numbers are amazing - Very few drafted outside of the 1st round even make it to the show..

http://proicehockey.about.com/od/prospe ... uccess.htm


Success rate of first-round draft picks

-Of the 494 career players drafted in the 1990s, 160 were selected in the first round.
-Of those 160 career players, over half have played more than 500 NHL games.
-Among the older players (those drafted from 1990 to 1994), six first-round picks have made it to 1,000 games. Another couple of dozen are still active and within reach of 1,000.
-Based on the 1990s sample, a first-round draft pick has a 63 percent chance of being a career player.
-Results can vary widely from year to year:

The 1993 NHL Draft produced 22 career players from 26 first-round picks.
-In 1999, less than half of the first-round selections went on to become career players (12 out of 28). Beyond the first round.

This is where the NHL dream begins to fade in a hurry:

-From 1990 to 1999, about one-quarter of the players selected in the second round turned into NHL career players.
Those drafted in the third round and beyond are really up against it.

-From over 2,000 players selected in the third round and beyond during 1990s, just 261 made it as NHL career players. That's about 12 percent.

So is it better to be undrafted..??

[SuperStar]

The numbers are amazing - Very few drafted outside of the 1st round even make it to the show..

http://proicehockey.about.com/od/prospe ... uccess.htm


Success rate of first-round draft picks

-Of the 494 career players drafted in the 1990s, 160 were selected in the first round.
-Of those 160 career players, over half have played more than 500 NHL games.
-Among the older players (those drafted from 1990 to 1994), six first-round picks have made it to 1,000 games. Another couple of dozen are still active and within reach of 1,000.
-Based on the 1990s sample, a first-round draft pick has a 63 percent chance of being a career player.
-Results can vary widely from year to year:

The 1993 NHL Draft produced 22 career players from 26 first-round picks.
-In 1999, less than half of the first-round selections went on to become career players (12 out of 28). Beyond the first round.

This is where the NHL dream begins to fade in a hurry:

-From 1990 to 1999, about one-quarter of the players selected in the second round turned into NHL career players.
Those drafted in the third round and beyond are really up against it.

-From over 2,000 players selected in the third round and beyond during 1990s, just 261 made it as NHL career players. That's about 12 percent.

So is it better to be undrafted..??

___________________________________________________________

Found another interesing article from a different Hockey Board (not my words. Copied and pasted):

Scott Cullen of TSN did something similar last year but broke it down more (1-5, 6-10, etc.).

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/scott_cullen/?id=267960

He used 1995-2004 though, and it fluctuates in a weird way. (e.g. #21-25 is 18% more likely to play at least 100 games than #11-15). I think 2004 might be too recent for some of the lower tier prospects/players.

[MNHockeyFan]

Then he had a great year in the USHL. However, he was very comparable in skill and size to his linemate Cammy.

Kloos is listed at 5'9" 178 lbs. vs. Cammarata at 5'7" 160 lbs. so I wouldn't say they are "very comparable" in size.

[keepyourheadup]

While both are small guys to say Cammy and Kloos are basically the same size is inaccurate. Watch the way they play and who battles for pucks and gets involved physically, no comparison here. Both dynamic players but VERY different.

[keepyourheadup]

A side to this discussion that is often glossed over is the position in a players birth year, the youngest kids in their respective birth years are often over looked because they are physically behind their peers. Kloos is a year and a half older than Cammy but is considered 2 years older. As for drafting???? I'll never figure that out, how is it even possible that 13 was drafted a round ahead of 24....some things just can't be explained!

[Sats81]

A side to this discussion that is often glossed over is the position in a players birth year, the youngest kids in their respective birth years are often over looked because they are physically behind their peers. Kloos is a year and a half older than Cammy but is considered 2 years older. As for drafting???? I'll never figure that out, how is it even possible that 13 was drafted a round ahead of 24....some things just can't be explained!

I'm gonna go on a "limb" here and say that 13 never plays a game in the National Hockey League. 25 will. 24 should have a nice NHL career too.

[xy]

As to 13 vs. 24, I think the words "Garth Snow" are about the best explanation you're going to get for that draft decision.

[keepyourheadup]

XY......I should have known that.....the guy is an absolute putz!....He just has to have a picture of ownership in an unnatural act!

[bsmguy]

Here are a few answers for you:

1. 13 was drafted ahead of 24 because of his USHL production. Both played in the USHL. 13 had 93 points in 59 games (1.5 ppg). 24 had 11 points in 25 games (.5 ppg). The extra point you average every night will get you drafted higher.

2. From an NHL standpoint; 5'9" and 5'7" are comparable size. both are "tiny" and "zero intimidattion factor".

3. Kloos is the outlier to the outlier theory. The NHL calculation on birth year is that Kloos and Cammy are both about the same number of years from being ready for the NHL (assuming all goes really well). Lets say that is four years. Kloos then enters the NHL at 25, but Cammy would enter at 23. If they both fade at age 30, the team gets two more years out of the younger player. So, all else being equal, you take the younger guy who has a few more points.


4. Of note: Kloos (30); Fasching (29) and Cammy (25) all have about the same number of points this year. With two games left, its possible that any of them could end up as the freshman points leader.

5. Besse got bigger his senior year and was up to 5'10" and 185 lbs. That probably helped him in the draft.

[xy]

Focusing only on 13, he has certain gifts that are simply remarkable, but given his size, skating ability, and style of play, it is awfully hard to see him succeeding in the NHL the way the game is played now, and that he went as early as he did was surprising standing on its own regardless of where Fasching went.

And while Fasching seems to have made huge strides in the past year, the draft was only ten months ago, he was already big, and even if he struggled somewhat in Ann Arbor I kind of doubt all the things he's shown this year, such as hands, speed, and hockey sense, just appeared out of nowhere. If you knew nothing else about them and had never seen them before, and were only going off their play for the Gophers this year, would you ever guess that, given their respective sizes and styles of play, someone actually given power to run an NHL team thought 13 was a more valuable long-term NHL prospect than 24? That's what puzzles people.

[keepyourheadup]

Still not buying the both tiny argument, you look at one and say...ya, probably too small, could he be the same player if he added 10 pounds?

You look at the other and you and are astounded that he's been able to accomplish what he has at that size.

I've been a gopher fan for 40+ years and Cammy is the smallest guy I've seen wear the M. Millen might have been the same hieght but the kid was a tree trunk, same thing with Brian Bonin. Stevie Orth, Dan Woog, Tyler Hirsch, Kyle Rau, I could list a couple dozen and none of them are as small as this kid. Kloos would be tiny if he was ever fortunate to play in the show but there are guys playing that are similar in size, a player of Cammy's stature would be almost unheard of.

[old goalie85]

Fasching would have been just as good if he would have stayed.Plus he could have played his last two years of soccer.[He was allstate as a soph]

[MNHockeyFan]

Still not buying the both tiny argument, you look at one and say...ya, probably too small, could he be the same player if he added 10 pounds?

You look at the other and you and are astounded that he's been able to accomplish what he has at that size.

I've been a gopher fan for 40+ years and Cammy is the smallest guy I've seen wear the M. Millen might have been the same hieght but the kid was a tree trunk, same thing with Brian Bonin. Stevie Orth, Dan Woog, Tyler Hirsch, Kyle Rau, I could list a couple dozen and none of them are as small as this kid. Kloos would be tiny if he was ever fortunate to play in the show but there are guys playing that are similar in size, a player of Cammy's stature would be almost unheard of.

Everything kyhu says here is spot on.

I hope both - but especially Cammy - hit the weight room hard during the off-season and come back next year with 10 lbs. of added strength.

[BodyShots]

Focusing only on 13, he has certain gifts that are simply remarkable, but given his size, skating ability, and style of play, it is awfully hard to see him succeeding in the NHL the way the game is played now, and that he went as early as he did was surprising standing on its own regardless of where Fasching went.

I agree with most of what you say, but succeeding in the NHL??? I'm still waiting for him to succeed at the college level. For as much hype I heard about this kid before coming to the Gophers, I'm still trying to figure out if any of it is true. Kloos on the other hand has been terrific. This kid works as hard as anyone all over the ice (offense, defense, and in the corners). The improvements Skjei has made from year 1 to year 2 are dramatic. Lets just hope we see as much improvement from Cammy. (A lot will depend on if he can lose the deer in headlights look when approaching the puck in the corner ).

[Gopher Blog]

Fasching would have been just as good if he would have stayed.Plus he could have played his last two years of soccer.[He was allstate as a soph]

I kind of doubt it. AV couldn't replicate the level of competition and training he got at the NTDP. I don't think his long term success would have been much different had he stayed at AV but I seriously doubt he would have had as strong of a freshman year at the U if he had stayed in HS hockey.

[Gopher Blog]

I agree with most of what you say, but succeeding in the NHL??? I'm still waiting for him to succeed at the college level. For as much hype I heard about this kid before coming to the Gophers, I'm still trying to figure out if any of it is true.

Cammy has had some growing pains. But the kid has also produced 25 pts. as a true freshman. That's not exactly lousy. That's better offensive production as a freshman than Bjugstad had his first year.

I won't be surprised if he plays all four years and ends up being a big time point producer before he is done in college.