Class A Rankings 12-20-2015

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:08 pm

The teams at the top continue to win while lots of teams with losing records are getting wins over teams with winning records. With holiday tournaments coming up, there aren't a whole lot of match ups of teams on this list, but there are enough to make some big moves. It should be an exciting two weeks.

1. [1] Breck (8-1)
The Mustangs have one loss this season, by 1 goal to a top AA team on the road. They followed that up beating St Paul Academy and Cathedral by a combined score of 15-1. With the first game of the Schwan Cup against Buffalo, Mahtomedi is on the opposite side of the bracket and would make for a good finals.
Tues 12/22 vs St Michael-Albertville, Tues 12/29 vs Buffalo, 12/30-31 Schwan Silver Cup

2. [2] Hermantown (6-1-1)
The Hawks started a road trip getting shut out to Minnetonka and followed it up with a win in New Prague. They don't have to go far for their holiday tournament this year but they probably won't be challenged until the final.
Tues 12/22 vs Eveleth-Gilbert, Tues 12/29 vs Delano, 12/30-31 Hilltopper Classic

3. [3] St Cloud Apollo (6-1)
The Eagles lost their first game by 1 on the road and have since only won, although it took OT to win in Sartell. Next week they will have another shot hosting Sartell; can they do it in regulation this time? With Breck and Hibbing on their schedule this year, half of the other 16 remaining games are against section opponents.
Tues 12/22 @ Rochester Lourdes, Mon 12/28 vs Sauk Rapids-Rice, Tues 12/29 @ St Cloud Tech, Wed 12/30 vs Sartell-St Stephen

4. [4] Mahtomedi (6-2)
The Zephyrs have won 3 section games in the last two weeks by a combined score of 16-1 and lost a close one to Hill-Murray. Mahtomedi only as the Schwan Cup in the next two weeks but looks to have 3 good opponents in those games. Will they meet Breck in the finals?
Tues 12/29 vs Eastview, 12/30-31 Schwan Silver Sup

5. [7] Delano (7-2)
The Tigers crushed at Kennedy team who beat St Paul Academy and their only two games of note were a 9-7 loss to Breck and a 9-6 win over Cathedral. Going 1-2 over the holidays wouldn't be a surprise but we also won't learn much about them; they need less than 2 losses to make a statement to finish out the calendar year.
Tues 12/29 vs Hermantown, 12/30-31 Hilltopper Classic

6. [5] St Paul Academy (5-3)
The Spartans had an off game against Kennedy and Breck shut them out but have also beating EGF and Luverne and played a close game with Mahtomedi. Between now and sections, their home game against Breck is the only one they should lose or they only have down to go.
Tues 12/22 vs Henry Sibley, Mon 11/28 vs Mankato West, 12/29-30 Duluth Heritage Classic

7. [9] Hibbing (8-0)
The Bluejackets have beaten 6 of their 8 opponents by at least 4 and beaten both Crookston and EGF by a score of 3-2 on the road. They are undefeated, but don't have any big wins yet. They play two hot Class A team over the next three weeks then play a back heavy schedule. Can they compete with Hermantown in the section?
Tues 12/22 @ Greenway, Mon 12/28 vs Brainerd, Tuesday 12/29 vs Northern Lakes

8. [6] East Grand Forks (7-3-1)
The Green Wave aren't the team they were the last couple years and with losses to the two teams just ahead of them, they aren't going to be much higher, but they tied a Bemidji team who beat Apollo and have won the rest. Time will tell us how they are ranked in their section.
Tues 12/22 @ Grand Forks Red River

9. [10] Thief River Falls (6-3)
The Prowlers two Class A losses are to Breck and Hermantown and they have kept it close with others.
Mon 12/28 vs Alexandria, Tues 12/29 vs Fargo North, Wed 12/30 vs Chippewa Falls

10. [8] St Cloud Cathedral (6-4)
The Crusaders have lost to the noteworthy opponents they've had but have taken care of business with everyone else. They only have down to go and their next two are against teams just outside the top 10.
Tues 12/22 vs Denfeld, Mon 12/28 Sartell-St Stephen, Tues 12/29 Sauk Rapids-Rice, Wed 12/30 River Lakes

11. [15] Sartell-St Stephen (7-2)
The Sabres have an OT loss to Apollo and have handled the rest of their schedule. How will they do against two St Cloud teams in three days?
Tues 12/22 vs Monticello, Mon 12/28 @ St Cloud Cathedral, Tues 12/29 vs Providence Academy, Wed 12/30 @ St Cloud Apollo

12. [13] Duluth Denfeld (5-3-1)
The Hunters' only Class A loss is to Hermantown so it's hard to tell where they should be at this point, but their upcoming games will tell us a lot more. Are they a top 10 team?
Tues 12/22 @ St Cloud Cathedral, Mon 12/28 vs St Louis Park, 12/29-30

13. [-] Greenway (9-1)
They Raiders have an OT loss to Denfeld and have averaged 1 GA in their other 9 games, which include two shut outs and only allowing more than 1 goal twice. They have a big home game this week and a holiday tournament with potential opponents with good records.
Tues 12/22 vs Hibbing, Mon 12/28 vs Spring Lake Park, 12/29-30 Schwans Open Cup

14. [11] Orono (8-2-1)
The Spartans' two Class A losses are to AA teams, they have gone to OT with New Prague twice and taken care of business otherwise. They have quality potential opponents in their holiday tournament.
Mon 12/28 vs St Francis, 12/29-30 Schwans Bronze Cup

15. [12] Luverne (7-2)
The Cardinals continue to win, by a lot, against their schedule. They have lost to the two noteworthy teams they've played though. Can they beat Totino on the road?
Sat 12/22 @ Fairmont, Tues 12/29 vs Litchfield, Thurs 12/31 @ Totino-Grace

Blake (3-3)
Tues 12/22 at Cretin-Derham Hall, Mon 12/28 vs Anoka, 12/29-30 Schwans Bronze Cup

Bloomington Kennedy (6-4)
Tues 12/22 vs Mound Westonka, Tues 12/29 vs East Ridge, 12/30-31 Schwans Bronze Cup

[16] Mankato West (6-4)
Tues 12/22 vs Winona, Mon 12/28 vs St Paul Academy, 12/29-30

North Shore (7-1)
Tues 12/22 vs Hayward, Mon 12/28 vs Red Lake Falls, 12/29-30 North Shore Tournament

Totino-Grace (4-5)
Thurs 12/31 vs Luverne, Sat 1/2 vs Minnetonka

Virginia (2-5-2)
Tues 12/22 vs Eagan, Tues 12/29 vs Northern Lakes, Wed 12/30 vs Brainerd

Little Falls (7-2)
Tues 12/22 vs Sauk Rapids-Rice, Mon 12/28 vs Mandan, Tues 12/29 vs Willmar, Wed 12/30 vs North Branch

TTpuckster · Post by **TTpuckster** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:05 pm

Other than Breck and Hermytown, the rest are a crap shoot.

Should make for an interesting rest of the year.

I'm biased, but it looks like the EGF goalie is coming around.
If so, and, if Loven returns, they could be a factor come tournament time.

But, of course, I am biased.....

greenway1969 · Post by **greenway1969** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:07 pm

I don't agree with your statement that Hibbing doesn't have a big win. The beat EGF in EGF. Also crushing Roseau in Roseau is a good win too.

stromboli · Post by **stromboli** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:42 pm

greenway1969 wrote:I don't agree with your statement that Hibbing doesn't have a big win. The beat EGF in EGF. Also crushing Roseau in Roseau is a good win too.

Beating EGF doesn't carry the same weight it would have the last few years. Look at how EGF did on their trip to the cities. Beating them by 1 doesn't exactly put Hibbing on the map. Nor does a win against the rams make them a top team.

All that said, they're a top ten class A team and I'd love to see them come out of their section at the end of the year.

rainier · Post by **rainier** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:12 pm

stromboli wrote:
greenway1969 wrote:I don't agree with your statement that Hibbing doesn't have a big win. The beat EGF in EGF. Also crushing Roseau in Roseau is a good win too.
Beating EGF doesn't carry the same weight it would have the last few years. Look at how EGF did on their trip to the cities. Beating them by 1 doesn't exactly put Hibbing on the map. Nor does a win against the rams make them a top team.

All that said, they're a top ten class A team and I'd love to see them come out of their section at the end of the year.

I think we're all debating semantics here, but I think that Hibbing beating EGF on the road is a big win. Before the game Hibbing was ranked in the 8-9 range in most polls, and EGF was ranked ahead of them in all the polls I saw.

Isn't beating a team ranked ahead of you a big win?

howardst · Post by **howardst** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:44 pm

polls that are based on last years results are foolish. HS turns over every year and players out early really affect teams. IF you wait until after 15 games and then input opinions you get a better look at where teams are. Until then you can only go by numbers. EGF is a big win in name but with Bowen out its not the same. That would be like beating Hibbing with out Perunovich, not the same team. Just the facts. Hibbing cant control if EGF or any team has all their players, all they can do is go out and take care of business best they can and get better come Feb.

TTpuckster · Post by **TTpuckster** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:32 pm

howardst wrote:polls that are based on last years results are foolish. HS turns over every year and players out early really affect teams. IF you wait until after 15 games and then input opinions you get a better look at where teams are. Until then you can only go by numbers. EGF is a big win in name but with Bowen out its not the same. That would be like beating Hibbing with out Perunovich, not the same team. Just the facts. Hibbing cant control if EGF or any team has all their players, all they can do is go out and take care of business best they can and get better come Feb.

I'd love it if Bowen was back, but I'm sure you meant Loven.

HILARY2016 · Post by **HILARY2016** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:39 pm

Luverne will definitely move up. There is a reason this totino game is being played on New Years Eve! Totino? Who they got?

rainier · Post by **rainier** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:51 pm

howardst wrote:polls that are based on last years results are foolish. HS turns over every year and players out early really affect teams. IF you wait until after 15 games and then input opinions you get a better look at where teams are. Until then you can only go by numbers. EGF is a big win in name but with Bowen out its not the same. That would be like beating Hibbing with out Perunovich, not the same team. Just the facts. Hibbing cant control if EGF or any team has all their players, all they can do is go out and take care of business best they can and get better come Feb.

I get it, EGF isn't as good as they were last season, but I'll ask again:

Isn't beating a team ranked ahead of you a big win?

Apollo, ranked #3, lost to Bemidji, EGF just tied Bemidji. EGF is clearly a top ten A team, even without Loven.

The losses to SPA and Breck were so lopsided due to terrible goaltending by a goalie playing in his first few varsity games. The shots were pretty close in the Breck game and they outshot SPA. I know that doesn't tell the whole story but it sure lets you know it wasn't a case of EGF being penned in their own zone the whole game by a superior team.

I'm turning into you, Howardst, except I have a weird team crush on EGF instead of Greenway, I guess.

howardst · Post by **howardst** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:23 am

lol At least I stick to the range!!!!!

You have to be a Red River Valley kid!

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:54 am

rainier wrote:I think we're all debating semantics here

this...

EGF is clearly not the team they were the last two years, but clearly not a push over either. And if their blowouts were due to a goalie getting his feet wet, it won't reflect in the rankings, if they keep winning it will, but they'll be there when the time matter.

As for Hibbing, they've played 7 games against teams not ranked anywhere. In those 7 games, they have 1 shut out, allowed 1 goal twice, 2 goals 3 times and 3 goals once. Nothing shiny, nothing bad. In their "big game," they beat a team with a lot of question marks 3-2 on the road. So, they sit 1 spot ahead of that team.

Unfortunately, when you don't play a particularly difficult schedule, how you win matters for rankings. If Hibbing had 8 shut outs, their ranking would be different. Ultimately, the goal is to win the games you play and they have done that. They have the schedule to be the top seed in their section, so time will tell how far they should rise.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:11 am

HShockeywatcher wrote:
rainier wrote:I think we're all debating semantics here
this...

EGF is clearly not the team they were the last two years, but clearly not a push over either. And if their blowouts were due to a goalie getting his feet wet, it won't reflect in the rankings, if they keep winning it will, but they'll be there when the time matter.

As for Hibbing, they've played 7 games against teams not ranked anywhere. In those 7 games, they have 1 shut out, allowed 1 goal twice, 2 goals 3 times and 3 goals once. Nothing shiny, nothing bad. In their "big game," they beat a team with a lot of question marks 3-2 on the road. So, they sit 1 spot ahead of that team.

Unfortunately, when you don't play a particularly difficult schedule, how you win matters for rankings. If Hibbing had 8 shut outs, their ranking would be different. Ultimately, the goal is to win the games you play and they have done that. They have the schedule to be the top seed in their section, so time will tell how far they should rise.

They won five games convincingly against mediocre competition at best.
If you are not at the game you cannot tell by the number of goals given up. Coach may have played 5 & 6 Dman late in the game, the other team has two kids capable of playing and they got a shift against the 4th line.

EGF, Crookston and Roseau have decent teams. 3 decent wins.

8 and 0

St Paul Acad. big win is against Luverne and EGF.
They have 3 losses.
Sop they beat EGF by more but on their home ice and a bit earlier in the year. EGF is starting to play better right about the time Hibbing went there.

I have no problem with either teams ranking (because that is all it is, YOUR opinion).
My problem is your rationale.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:16 am

elliott70 wrote:
HShockeywatcher wrote:
rainier wrote:I think we're all debating semantics here
this...

EGF is clearly not the team they were the last two years, but clearly not a push over either. And if their blowouts were due to a goalie getting his feet wet, it won't reflect in the rankings, if they keep winning it will, but they'll be there when the time matter.

As for Hibbing, they've played 7 games against teams not ranked anywhere. In those 7 games, they have 1 shut out, allowed 1 goal twice, 2 goals 3 times and 3 goals once. Nothing shiny, nothing bad. In their "big game," they beat a team with a lot of question marks 3-2 on the road. So, they sit 1 spot ahead of that team.

Unfortunately, when you don't play a particularly difficult schedule, how you win matters for rankings. If Hibbing had 8 shut outs, their ranking would be different. Ultimately, the goal is to win the games you play and they have done that. They have the schedule to be the top seed in their section, so time will tell how far they should rise.
They won five games convincingly against mediocre competition at best.
If you are not at the game you cannot tell by the number of goals given up. Coach may have played 5 & 6 Dman late in the game, the other team has two kids capable of playing and they got a shift against the 4th line.

EGF, Crookston and Roseau have decent teams. 3 decent wins.

8 and 0

St Paul Acad. big win is against Luverne and EGF.
They have 3 losses.
Sop they beat EGF by more but on their home ice and a bit earlier in the year. EGF is starting to play better right about the time Hibbing went there.

I have no problem with either teams ranking (because that is all it is, YOUR opinion).
My problem is your rationale.

This is my point. You aren't there so you don't know. It could be an opponent they know they are going to beat, so they mix things up and work on things, it could be a close game. You don't know. But just like computerized systems used margin of victory, it is the result of the game that is played, although secondary to the result.

The flip side of this is a team with a bunch of close games. Losing to a good team by a goal or 2 is very different than a team getting shut out.
Along those lines, how you win when playing a lesser opponent usually doesn't matter.

SPA beat EGF (granted at home) 7-3 while Hibbing beat them 3-2. The Kennedy loss is [likely] an off and they also have a close loss to Mahtomedi. Which goes along with my point, the main thing that separates SPA and Hibbing right now is the result of their EGF games. So the 3 of them sit right next to each other, the team with the losses on bottom and the team with the better win on top.

Furthermore, as I eluded to, Hibbing could be the best Class A team in state. They're one of only a handful of teams to not lose any games to Class A opponents. Time will tell.

rainier · Post by **rainier** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:47 pm

HShockeywatcher wrote:
rainier wrote:I think we're all debating semantics here
this...

EGF is clearly not the team they were the last two years, but clearly not a push over either. And if their blowouts were due to a goalie getting his feet wet, it won't reflect in the rankings, if they keep winning it will, but they'll be there when the time matter.

As for Hibbing, they've played 7 games against teams not ranked anywhere. In those 7 games, they have 1 shut out, allowed 1 goal twice, 2 goals 3 times and 3 goals once. Nothing shiny, nothing bad. In their "big game," they beat a team with a lot of question marks 3-2 on the road. So, they sit 1 spot ahead of that team.

Unfortunately, when you don't play a particularly difficult schedule, how you win matters for rankings. If Hibbing had 8 shut outs, their ranking would be different. Ultimately, the goal is to win the games you play and they have done that. They have the schedule to be the top seed in their section, so time will tell how far they should rise.

I have no problem with your rankings either (except VMIB shouldn't be anywhere on your list

). I just thought it was weird for people to toss off the EGF win as essentially meaningless. Yes, EGF is not the same team that won state the last two years, but you had them at 6 and Hibbing at 9 (similar to most rankings), and for anyone to say that wasn't a big win for Hibbing is insane.

Hibbing had some excellent games last year (tying Rapids and Marshall, taking Mahtomedi to OT, losing by only one goal to Hermantown), but they didn't beat anybody that would be considered a top 15 team in A. By beating EGF, they finally beat a team ranked ahead of them. That's huge for those kids. (One could argue the first big win was at Roseau, because the Rams would likely be near the top ten if they were in A.)

Hibbing will have plenty of chances for other big wins this season (Greenway twice, Brainerd, Cloquet, Rapids, Apollo, TRF, Hermantown, Denfeld), so we'll see if they can build off of the EGF win.

I think Hibbing is right there with teams 3-10 in A, and a step behind Hermantown and Breck. It seems similar to AA, where after BSM and EP, there is a jumble of teams that can beat each other on any day.

stromboli · Post by **stromboli** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:26 pm

rainier wrote:
HShockeywatcher wrote:
rainier wrote:I think we're all debating semantics here
this...

EGF is clearly not the team they were the last two years, but clearly not a push over either. And if their blowouts were due to a goalie getting his feet wet, it won't reflect in the rankings, if they keep winning it will, but they'll be there when the time matter.

As for Hibbing, they've played 7 games against teams not ranked anywhere. In those 7 games, they have 1 shut out, allowed 1 goal twice, 2 goals 3 times and 3 goals once. Nothing shiny, nothing bad. In their "big game," they beat a team with a lot of question marks 3-2 on the road. So, they sit 1 spot ahead of that team.

Unfortunately, when you don't play a particularly difficult schedule, how you win matters for rankings. If Hibbing had 8 shut outs, their ranking would be different. Ultimately, the goal is to win the games you play and they have done that. They have the schedule to be the top seed in their section, so time will tell how far they should rise.
I have no problem with your rankings either (except VMIB shouldn't be anywhere on your list ). I just thought it was weird for people to toss off the EGF win as essentially meaningless. Yes, EGF is not the same team that won state the last two years, but you had them at 6 and Hibbing at 9 (similar to most rankings), and for anyone to say that wasn't a big win for Hibbing is insane.

Hibbing had some excellent games last year (tying Rapids and Marshall, taking Mahtomedi to OT, losing by only one goal to Hermantown), but they didn't beat anybody that would be considered a top 15 team in A. By beating EGF, they finally beat a team ranked ahead of them. That's huge for those kids. (One could argue the first big win was at Roseau, because the Rams would likely be near the top ten if they were in A.)

Hibbing will have plenty of chances for other big wins this season (Greenway twice, Brainerd, Cloquet, Rapids, Apollo, TRF, Hermantown, Denfeld), so we'll see if they can build off of the EGF win.

I think Hibbing is right there with teams 3-10 in A, and a step behind Hermantown and Breck. It seems similar to AA, where after BSM and EP, there is a jumble of teams that can beat each other on any day.

Easy. Nobody said the win over EGF was meaningless. Even before that game I ranked Hibbing at 6 and EGF at 10 on this forum. Winning by a goal fits with that.

Some of us have given Hibbing their due despite "most" polls having placed EGF too high to start the season based on the past few years' results.

I agree that they'll have plenty of chances for some big wins the rest of the season.

I just think pumping the brakes a bit might be in order until they play a few more ranked teams.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:00 pm

rainier wrote:I have no problem with your rankings either (except VMIB shouldn't be anywhere on your list ).

This seems more like a jab than anything else, but I'll address it. Virginia is 2-6-2 now. They have losses to Greenway, Rapids, Warroad (by 1, on the road), Denfeld, Cloquet and now Eagan and gave Little Falls one of their two losses. They're obviously not a top 10 team, but it seems like they are worthy of a mention. That's all.

rainier wrote:I just thought it was weird for people to toss off the EGF win as essentially meaningless.

Like you said, this is all about semantics. No one said it was meaningless. Any win can be a big win to any team for a number of reasons.
Was the Cathedral over Denfeld win tonight a "big win?" Sure, it keeps them ahead of Denfeld and solidifies the ranking they already had, plus it was by more than one goal.
Is it a game that is going to catapult them up the rankings? Probably not.
Was Hibbing beating Greenway tonight a "big win?" Oh yeah, probably the biggest for the team of the year yet; does it make them a top 5 team? Probably not quite yet.
Semantics

Big night in Class A...

Sartell, Hermantown and Apollo both with shut outs tonight.

EGF loses to Red River by 1.

Hibbing over Greenway 4-2.

Cathedral over Denfeld 3-1.

SPA, Luverne and Breck all scoring at least 8 and giving up 1.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:10 am

2 Breck
3 Rosemount

This means that the Breck/Mahtomedi final won't be happening today.

Who's out there watching some class A hockey? It appears that there hasn't been a single upset according to the rankings from 2 weekends ago and doesn't appear that there can be today or tomorrow. Any teams I haven't made note of that you're seeing doing well?

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:32 pm

6 STMA
1 Breck

Last Tuesday Breck beat St Michael 9-1. This is a huge swing. Are players out or did they really just not show up the last two games?

TTpuckster · Post by **TTpuckster** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:05 am

HShockeywatcher wrote:6 STMA
1 Breck

Last Tuesday Breck beat St Michael 9-1. This is a huge swing. Are players out or did they really just not show up the last two games?

Yea, I agree. What is going on with Breck?

backcheck9 · Post by **backcheck9** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:41 am

I was at the last half of the Rosemount/Breck game on Tuesday and saw the entire game v STMA yesterday. Versus RM I thought it was a good game giving an edge in play to Breck. RM's goalie played well. Ellingson hit the crossbar on a breakaway with around a minute to go that would have tied it.
Against STMA it was fairly back and forth thru 2 periods with an edge in play to Breck. STMA made them pay on a couple of odd man rushes.
In the third Breck dominated about 13 of the 17 min. It looked like a period long Power play for Breck. STMA's goalie came up big on some stops but many Breck shots were blocked, missed the net, or came from the outside with no screen in front. When the play did end up in the Breck zone, STMA took advantage of more mistakes. After the second period, Breck put in their backup goalie only down 4-1. Not sure why they did that? IMO nothing is really wrong with Breck. Chalk it up to a scoring slump or hot goaltending maybe? They'll be fine.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:14 pm

Has anyone seen Totino this year and able to comment on them? They are 5-5, like 6-5 by Sunday, but with their conference they play a whole 5 games against Class A opponents. They started the season losing to both EGF and TRF by scores of 3-2 on the road, lost 7-4 to Breck and just beat Luverne 7-6. Their only remaining Class A opponent is Mahtomedi and that's not until February.