MY new Section 8AA and 7AA

[elliott70]

In a perfect world (or an imperfect world within an imperfect world)...

If this could happen

a new section 8AA line up...

Roseau
Bemidji
Moorhead
Brainerd
St Cloud

and add
Alexandria
East Grand Forks
Thief River Falls

7AA
Grand Rapids
Duluth Marshall
Duluth East
Cloquet

and add Hermantwon

I would like to add Hibbing and Virginia but not sure
so keep
St Francis
Forest Lake
Cambridge

[Schotzy]

In a perfect world (or an imperfect world within an imperfect world)...

If this could happen

a new section 8AA line up...

Roseau
Bemidji
Moorhead
Brainerd
St Cloud

and add
Alexandria
East Grand Forks
Thief River Falls

7AA
Grand Rapids
Duluth Marshall
Duluth East
Cloquet

and add Hermantwon

I would like to add Hibbing and Virginia but not sure
so keep
St Francis
Forest Lake
Cambridge

And the angels sang, and Lord spoke, "It is good".

[northwoods oldtimer]

In a perfect world (or an imperfect world within an imperfect world)...

If this could happen

a new section 8AA line up...

Roseau
Bemidji
Moorhead
Brainerd
St Cloud

and add
Alexandria
East Grand Forks
Thief River Falls

7AA
Grand Rapids
Duluth Marshall
Duluth East
Cloquet

and add Hermantwon

I would like to add Hibbing and Virginia but not sure
so keep
St Francis
Forest Lake
Cambridge

Elliot, you have too much common sense for today's society.

[O-townClown]

The 8x8 alignment for ~64 teams is tough at AA when so few outstate schools qualify. Ideally there is broad representation with 5 metro schools and one from the South, Northwest, and Northeast. Right now nobody can seem to beat the Lakevilles for 1AA and we almost had last-ring metro teams win to make it all 8.

[MWS coach]

Interesting how the only north metro teams you want to keep in those sections are the lowest ranked teams in the section.

In my perfect world AA hockey would be a 64 team bracket. It wouldn't be based upon geography, but a ranked bracket. (ranking could be done by coaches vote or some ranking system) Final 8 make it to the X. Round of 16 is at 8 different predetermined sites. 64 and 32 would be played at high seed.

What a concept, get the best 8 teams to the X based upon result which happened on the ice, not which part of the state you live in or whom may or may not be in your section.

[northwoods oldtimer]

Interesting how the only north metro teams you want to keep in those sections are the lowest ranked teams in the section.

In my perfect world AA hockey would be a 64 team bracket. It wouldn't be based upon geography, but a ranked bracket. (ranking could be done by coaches vote or some ranking system) Final 8 make it to the X. Round of 16 is at 8 different predetermined sites. 64 and 32 would be played at high seed.

What a concept, get the best 8 teams to the X based upon result which happened on the ice, not which part of the state you live in or whom may or may not be in your section.

Solid idea for sure but with mentality of MSHSL "all things fair" mentaility this would never happen. Introduce the proposal for all sports and it has some potential.

[greenwayraider]

Denfeld would be a better add than Hibbing or Virginia. None of the Range schools have a top caliber team in peewees or bantams. Denfeld does.

[O-townClown]

In my perfect world AA hockey would be a 64 team bracket. It wouldn't be based upon geography, but a ranked bracket. (ranking could be done by coaches vote or some ranking system) Final 8 make it to the X. Round of 16 is at 8 different predetermined sites. 64 and 32 would be played at high seed.

The potential for sending Owatonna or Dodge County to Roseau or Duluth for a first round game is precisely why this won't get any traction.

Regional/Sectional representation makes "perfect" (your word) sense for HS sports. It also makes sense for each Section to sort out their own issues, like Rogers and Bemidji being in the same group.

I don't see any problem with the tourney the way it is and has been. Periodic adjustments to the Sections maintains some balance.

[yesiplayedhockey]

Here is what no one wants to see

A tournament with more than 1 private school in it
A tournament without a team from the North (Duluth, Moorhead, etc)
A tournament with 4 or 5 teams from the west metro


Seriously, the format is fair. Far from perfect but fair. Adjustments are needed on a regular basis. I just hope they listen to guys like Elliott who get it, know the hockey landscape and share their opinions that are fair to all.

[Schotzy]

Here is what no one wants to see

A tournament with more than 1 private school in it
A tournament without a team from the North (Duluth, Moorhead, etc)
A tournament with 4 or 5 teams from the west metro


Seriously, the format is fair. Far from perfect but fair. Adjustments are needed on a regular basis. I just hope they listen to guys like Elliott who get it, know the hockey landscape and share their opinions that are fair to all.

Agree 100%

[elliott70]

Interesting how the only north metro teams you want to keep in those sections are the lowest ranked teams in the section.

In my perfect world AA hockey would be a 64 team bracket. It wouldn't be based upon geography, but a ranked bracket. (ranking could be done by coaches vote or some ranking system) Final 8 make it to the X. Round of 16 is at 8 different predetermined sites. 64 and 32 would be played at high seed.

What a concept, get the best 8 teams to the X based upon result which happened on the ice, not which part of the state you live in or whom may or may not be in your section.

They are the farthest north.

I don't want them, but don't think Hibbing and Virginia could make the jump, not until the local economies come back.

[kniven]

Denfeld would be a better add than Hibbing or Virginia. None of the Range schools have a top caliber team in peewees or bantams. Denfeld does.

But, will the kids stay at Denfeld in high school. Duluth Marshall and Hermantown licking their chops?

[Slap Shot]

In my perfect world AA hockey would be a 64 team bracket. It wouldn't be based upon geography, but a ranked bracket. (ranking could be done by coaches vote or some ranking system) Final 8 make it to the X. Round of 16 is at 8 different predetermined sites. 64 and 32 would be played at high seed.

Isn't this the same thing as Tier 1 and 2 which no one wants back? I realize you're removing geography from the mix but the "A" tournament would be the best of the lousiest.

[Doc Holliday]

I think the 32 team bracket style that 6A football has works well in getting the best teams deeper in the playoffs....but I don't think it would work for hockey. People are a lot more territorial when it comes to hockey. I think there would be meltdown if Andover had won last night with no outstate team in the AA bracket.

I like the current format. Plus, it's the MSHSL's meal ticket right now, so they won't change what isn't broken.

If you DID do it, I'd see it similar to the way football does it. The first round of sections is still playing a section game to someone close in proximity. Then, it would break off when you have 32 teams left. One big problem is what football has: who's left standing. This year's football had 3 large western suburban schools (Eden Prairie, Minnetonka & Maple Grove) and the 4th (Cretin), defeated another large western suburban school by 1 TD (Edina). Since 2010, 6 of the 8 Friday nights have featured at least 2 large western suburban schools ('10: Edina & Tonka, '11 Edina & EP, '13 Edina & Wayzata, '14 & '15 Edina & EP, '16 EP & Wayzata). Allowing an opportunity for Edina/Tonka/EP/Wayzata to not have to go through the other & go through someone else may make Friday night a 3 team Lake affair, not to mention that Prior Lake & Maple Grove are coming, along with my feeling that one of Chaska or Chanhassen is going to eventually come out as THE hockey destination of the two & kids will eventually start heading to one or the other.

32 team bracket may end up getting the best teams, but I don't know if everyone's going to like seeing who they will see most of the time. Stick with what's rolling right now; it can use some tweaks perhaps, but it ain't broken. I like Elliot's thoughts....getting Hermantown would send one city school closer. I can see Alex also making it work (although who knows with the new private school starting up if that has any effect).

[BobSaget]

Elliot, love where your head's at. I'd go a little different, but just my own dreams in my own world.

Section 8AA
Roseau
Bemidji
Moorhead
Brainerd
Alexandria
East Grand Forks
Thief River Falls
Warroad

Section 7AA
Grand Rapids
Duluth Marshall
Duluth East
Cloquet
Hermantwon
St Francis
Forest Lake
Cambridge

Section 6AA
St. Michael-Albertville
Rogers
Buffalo
Elk River
Andover
St. Cloud
St. Cloud Cathedral
Monticello

[MWS coach]

In my perfect world AA hockey would be a 64 team bracket. It wouldn't be based upon geography, but a ranked bracket. (ranking could be done by coaches vote or some ranking system) Final 8 make it to the X. Round of 16 is at 8 different predetermined sites. 64 and 32 would be played at high seed.

Isn't this the same thing as Tier 1 and 2 which no one wants back? I realize you're removing geography from the mix but the "A" tournament would be the best of the lousiest.

No it wouldn't, there are about 64 AA teams now, may change a few from A to AA depending on how many opt ups, but the ranking would be from existing AA teams which didn't include A team. Completely different.

[MWS coach]

First off, I never said this would happen and I know it won't. The travel is a little weak (I get MSHL would never agree to it) as it is limited number of games. Teams travel all the time and it is typically the Booster/Blue line club that pays for the travel, which in effect is the parents. Families travel all through their youth career but now since school is involved, we should travel to get the best teams to state? Andover just traveled to Duluth twice this week, one of the times to play a team where the home rinks are 15 miles apart? Didn't STMA just travel to Bemidji?

Wouldn't it have been great to have both DE and GR make state last year from a talent perspective?

Do I think the tournament is broken, no way! It is the crown jewel of HS sports.

I Just think having the teams make the state tournament should be decided on the ice, not by where you live.

Would I absolutely hate the year that 3 west metro teams made it to state, yes. But if they win they make it.

Just posting how it would look in my perfect world were the sky is purple!

[green4]

Elliot, love where your head's at. I'd go a little different, but just my own dreams in my own world.

Section 8AA
Roseau
Bemidji
Moorhead
Brainerd
Alexandria
East Grand Forks
Thief River Falls
Warroad

Section 7AA
Grand Rapids
Duluth Marshall
Duluth East
Cloquet
Hermantwon
St Francis
Forest Lake
Cambridge

Section 6AA
St. Michael-Albertville
Rogers
Buffalo
Elk River
Andover
St. Cloud
St. Cloud Cathedral
Monticello

Who is even left in northern single A sections with this alignment?

What do you do with the teams who are in 6AA now? Do you dare move Edina, Wayzata, Benilde and SLP (Schotzy's hometown) with EP, Tonka, Chaska and Holy Family?

[Doc Holliday]

Section 6AA
St. Michael-Albertville
Rogers
Buffalo
Elk River
Andover
St. Cloud
St. Cloud Cathedral
Monticello

Well, at least 5AA would have competition for section consistently going 2 & Cue....

[BobSaget]

Elliot, love where your head's at. I'd go a little different, but just my own dreams in my own world.

Section 8AA
Roseau
Bemidji
Moorhead
Brainerd
Alexandria
East Grand Forks
Thief River Falls
Warroad

Section 7AA
Grand Rapids
Duluth Marshall
Duluth East
Cloquet
Hermantwon
St Francis
Forest Lake
Cambridge

Section 6AA
St. Michael-Albertville
Rogers
Buffalo
Elk River
Andover
St. Cloud
St. Cloud Cathedral
Monticello

Who is even left in northern single A sections with this alignment?

What do you do with the teams who are in 6AA now? Do you dare move Edina, Wayzata, Benilde and SLP (Schotzy's hometown) with EP, Tonka, Chaska and Holy Family?

To the first question - I think you could make it work. 7A would be well represented in a Class A state tourney if Greenway were there this year. 8A would be hit harder. Might become a weak section, who knows? But, there are a lot of small towns in NW Minnesota whose hockey programs might benefit from making a Class A state tourney. That's what Class A is about...growing programs.

To your second question - I guess I'm not sure that the number in front of section 6AA as I listed needs to be set in stone. Edina can still be in 6AA if they are hell bent on it...then the section 6AA I mentioned could maybe be 1AA....maybe even 94AA. I'll let you pick. With an overhaul like I mentioned, it's pretty obvious that teams in other sections would need to be moved around to make it work.

[BobSaget]

Section 6AA
St. Michael-Albertville
Rogers
Buffalo
Elk River
Andover
St. Cloud
St. Cloud Cathedral
Monticello

Well, at least 5AA would have competition for section consistently going 2 & Cue....

St. Cloud would be the 5th seed in the section and inched up toward the top 20 in AA this year. Certainly not 6AA, but that's not the point...

Also, I would bet that at least one of those teams will win a AA championship in the next 10-15 years...it's about $$, and that's where it's headed.

[Schotzy]

Elliot, love where your head's at. I'd go a little different, but just my own dreams in my own world.

Section 8AA
Roseau
Bemidji
Moorhead
Brainerd
Alexandria
East Grand Forks
Thief River Falls
Warroad

Section 7AA
Grand Rapids
Duluth Marshall
Duluth East
Cloquet
Hermantwon
St Francis
Forest Lake
Cambridge

Section 6AA
St. Michael-Albertville
Rogers
Buffalo
Elk River
Andover
St. Cloud
St. Cloud Cathedral
Monticello

Who is even left in northern single A sections with this alignment?

What do you do with the teams who are in 6AA now? Do you dare move Edina, Wayzata, Benilde and SLP (Schotzy's hometown) with EP, Tonka, Chaska and Holy Family?

Go Orioles!!!! I

[Stang5280]

Section 6AA
St. Michael-Albertville
Rogers
Buffalo
Elk River
Andover
St. Cloud
St. Cloud Cathedral
Monticello

Well, at least 5AA would have competition for section consistently going 2 & Cue....

St. Cloud would be the 5th seed in the section and inched up toward the top 20 in AA this year. Certainly not 6AA, but that's not the point...

Also, I would bet that at least one of those teams will win a AA championship in the next 10-15 years...it's about $$, and that's where it's headed.

With the exception of Andover, and some areas of the Buffalo district (and Cathedral, being a private school), those are not exactly wealthy schools. The outer-ring northwest suburbs are fairly blue collar, and filled with young families (and white, let’s be honest) looking for affordable housing and decent schools. STMA and Rogers are not exactly Prior Lake or Lakeville on the socioeconomic scale. The population growth is huge in those areas, though, and the hockey participantion numbers are following.

On an unrelated note, why would it make sense to separate Andover from neighboring rival Blaine in drawing up sections? Maple grove would make more sense geographically.

[BobSaget]

With the exception of Andover, and some areas of the Buffalo district (and Cathedral, being a private school), those are not exactly wealthy schools. The outer-ring northwest suburbs are fairly blue collar, and filled with young families (and white, let’s be honest) looking for affordable housing and decent schools. STMA and Rogers are not exactly Prior Lake or Lakeville on the socioeconomic scale. The population growth is huge in those areas, though, and the hockey participantion numbers are following.

On an unrelated note, why would it make sense to separate Andover from neighboring rival Blaine in drawing up sections? Maple grove would make more sense geographically.

First, you're entirely correct about the current makeup of the I-94 corridor communities I mentioned. At present, those are primarily blue collar communities. That said, I'm not talking about Lake Minnetonka wealth sliding up the corridors, that won't happen. I'm talking about rapidly growing populations with enough money to have enough kids build up youth hockey programs.

That's exactly what is currently happening along the corridor.
The populations of the cities along the corridor are growing, and fast. Hell, Sartell is growing like crazy and has a ton of money to boot, and already right on the edge of the A/AA cut off. STMA got beat like 16-0 by Cathedral in the playoffs a few years ago because they didn't have enough players to have a backup goalie. Now they are in the AA state tourney...

Regarding your other point, sure, trade out Andover for Maple Grove. Elk River for Osseo, too, you're really feeling frisky.

My main point in all of this is that I think Sections 7 and 8 should be represented by true non-metro teams. Also, there are several non-traditional programs that will become big time players in AA hockey in the coming years and the makeup of these sections will need to remain fluid reflect that.