Open Enrollment Solved!

Bobby The Tina Slayer Orr · Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:16 pm

The first game of the season, send all the transfer girls a message. Have it delivered by a "Beese" (of Coon Rapids) type player and give their parents the number of a good doctor/E.R. I know this is really silly<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> and way out of the box, and it sure isn't ethical<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/devil.gif ALT=":evil"> , but it would make people think.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"> That is the way they handle it in boys hockey. The transfers are hated by their old team and crucified, on ice, if they ever play each other again. I've seen a few cat fights in Summer hockey. Maybe it could be settled there. I'd like to see them pay some sort of price for lacking the courage to be the best player at a lower school. Many parents feel the need for their children to be on top flight programs so they will get noticed by college coaches and recieve scholarship opportunities. If that's what you believe, you are very uninformed. High school hockey stinks compared to what goes on the rest of the year. College coaches say transfers "show a lack of commitment" and are generally "not good team players." Also, they say the majority of transfers have parents who are stick their noses where they don't belong and that doesn't play at the D1 level. If you are good, <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"> they know who you are. If you are selfish,<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smokin.gif ALT=":smokin"> they'll find out sooner than you will. Wow! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> There I go again. Man this is fun<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin">

hockeyrube · Post by **hockeyrube** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:57 pm

Amen !!!!

PAMESH · Post by **PAMESH** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:05 am

it takes 3 things to play at the higher levels 1. good player 2. good kid 3 good parents If one of those items is missing it will definetly reduce your chances of getting noticed. I sure the scouts realize this more then anyone.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:02 am

Having a coach that will promote you as your talent warrants is critical too (all will) - especially on a average at best team. I disagree that all talent gets found. True stay at home D will get missed in any program, but often get found only as D1 prospects in top notch State Tourney like programs unfortunately. A "Modest Proposal" above I guess Re: Open Enrollment Solved!... you do wear a target when you transfer, and coaches can't reject transfers for legal reasons, but coaches could sit out transfer players against their old teams unless they really needed them to play to win I suppose... What I think everyone is so upset about is that the "State" is tainted in some eyes by transfers. My suggestion? Make MSHSL HS State a "play where you're from" event for sections and state (no privates, no transfers playing with a team but their home area HS). Then, allow all the regular season HS teams (w/transfers) teams to play an "AAA" or "w/transfer reg. season HS team" state - maybe even let them compete for the birth to nationals too through US/MN Hockey U19??? Everyone seems to get what they want then - a "real" state for the purists, and AAA state (plus shot at nationals???) for the HS reg. season teams w/transfers. This would unfortunately disrupt the B&A as we have it now I suppose, which I think is good now. Maybe there needs to be some "home area based state" for the purists and a "HS Season w/transfers based state" for the others... I hate to break this to people though - but EP would likely still be the top team in the state either way, as would Wayzata I would think. Hopkins would be up there. And, Bloomington, Woodbury, Tartan may be stronger than most would think too... Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 3/2/06 11:25 am

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:19 am

I forgot to mention that I believe that the #1 reason why kids transfer isn't games - it's the practices. Someone pointed this out to me recently, and it totlaly makes sense. It isn't about getting to play games with the best players necissarily, but the development and commitment at high tempo practices where all the kids are there with a purpose. If you take away those practices, the point of playing on a HS team via transfer almost becomes moot other than the recognition and ability to showcase your talent on the best stage with strong players around you - but this can be done via AAA too as it essentially is the same thing...

77Thunderbird · Post by **77Thunderbird** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:48 pm

To characterize players that choose to Open Enroll as showing a lack of commitment or are not good team players is also an uninformed opinion. There are many more players that have a lack of commitment or are not good team players that are playing in their home District. In fact, I know of situations where one of the drivers behind leaving was because the home team had one too many of such players. It's not very rewarding to play under these conditions. What about the program where there are difficulties with substance abuse? How can anyone fault a player who chooses to leave a program under these conditions? I also know of this situation. Shouldn't these players be allowed to play a sport they love without fear of being physically ridiculed or hurt? Unless you're personally involved, you have no idea what the drivers were behind an open enrollment decision or the decision to play at a private school or the decision to stay at someone's home District, for that matter. It doesn't take courage in my book to stay a big fish in a small pond. It does take belief in yourself, that your talents will be recognized regardless of the success of your team. This is the same sort of belief in yourself that you need to take the risk to change schools. There are no guarantees down any path. Open enrollment is not inherently good or evil. For the time being, it is a one choice of several that all players have, whether they make it consciously or unconsciously.

FACMAN · Post by **FACMAN** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:14 pm

77Thunderbird, Thanks for one of the more lucid posts. I agree, OE is not inherently good or evil. It is not something that should sicken anyone. All of the people who claim to know why each family makes OE their choice, can't possibly know.

Nostalgic Nerd · Post by **Nostalgic Nerd** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:29 am

Well even if OE's intent is to gain exposure and win championships, who are we to play watchdog? "Dream as if you'll live forever; Live as if you'll die today." --James Dean

SEhockeyDAD · Post by **SEhockeyDAD** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:01 am

Well, if nothing else, we're qualified to talk about it anyway. Besides, real watchdogs could get a good feel for the issues by perusing forums like this one. Heck, one of us could even be a watchdog some day! (Dare to dream.)

Swoops26 · Post by **Swoops26** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:37 am

77, you cited 3-4 good reasons for a player to chose to change schools. But then you also said its takes a belief that your talents will be recognized no matter what the success of your team. That seems somewhat contradictory. At either rate, all the reasons were 'hockey' related.Was that the original intent of o/e? I'd like to hear discussion on whether the sports aspect has become the primary factor in o/e and if this is a good thing or not? I guess i get the feeling it is. If it is true, I'm afraid we'll just never come to a point of total acceptance by everyone....at least we'll always have something to bantor back and forth about when things are slow <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b">

Nostalgic Nerd · Post by **Nostalgic Nerd** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:30 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Well, if nothing else, we're qualified to talk about it anyway. Besides, real watchdogs could get a good feel for the issues by perusing forums like this one. Heck, one of us could even be a watchdog some day! (Dare to dream.)<hr></blockquote> Point taken. I'm not sure there are any real qualifications though.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> "Dream as if you'll live forever; Live as if you'll die today." --James Dean

xk1 · Post by **xk1** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:35 am

There will never be any true agreement on what to do about OE and transfers. I think the current rules are a good and workable compromise. If stricter rules are needed they should come at the school district level like Eagan did.

hockeyrube · Post by **hockeyrube** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:37 am

Are you serious with your suggestion about 2 seperate tournaments ??? From a "purist" standpoint - it certainly would provide more fairness. Interesting thought process, but probably impossible to administer. Hey, another thought to appease the purists - Have the players home school district listed on the rosters for sections and state - at least we will all know who is benefitting more from O/E than others !!! If there is no shame in O/E, than why not ??? I also like your thoughts on the B&A, especially the Fall Elite League just like the boys had last Fall. Hopefully, we can make this happen !! You are exactly right - even if we tigthened the rules on O/E, the same schools would be powerhouses (EP, CR, Stillwater, Edina, etc) - they have good programs and big enrollments. On practices... every single HS team has a fairly wide range of "committment to intensity" from one player to another. Most of the players on most of the HS teams probably bust their butts at practice. I assume the coaches demand it!!! I don't want to be critical of individual kids that choose to O/E, but perhaps more could be done to improve the work habits of their fellow teammates - coaches/captains/etc, rather than choosing to leave the program. If this is the #1 reason why hockey players are choosing to O/E - than the #1 reason is hockey motivated, not educationally motivated !! Lastly, as swoops said, O/E was designed to provide students with school choice. Agreed that O/E is not inherently evil, rather it provides students an opportunity to pursue better educational opportunities outside of their home district. While we will never know the true motivations of each and every hockey player that chooses to O/E, nor is it our business, if we assume that they are based on educational opportunities rather than hockey opportunities than why don't we amend the statute to provide a 1 yr waiting period on athletics ???? Can you really expect people to believe that 100% of the players opting to O/E are doing so for educational reasons as the statute is designed ??? The statute was not designed to allow hockey powerhouses to be built with O/E kids - so that they can dominate the State !! That's for sure.

Swoops26 · Post by **Swoops26** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:02 am

Rube, excellent suggestion on designating o/es on rosters! Do it on the rosters all through the season in all sports or all actvities. Its legal, is there shame in it? That way like in a non-sport activity you could see..this student came to this school for excellence in math studies or the drama department, what ever, the true spirit of bill in action ya know? Good for them! Also,on the sports side, you would see its not just the 2-3 powerhouses that have o/es and that may deflect some of the majority of the heat that they have to put up with

Nostalgic Nerd · Post by **Nostalgic Nerd** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:30 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>nor is it our business, if we assume that they are based on educational opportunities rather than hockey opportunities<hr></blockquote> Nor is it our business if they do it for hockey ones. Sure, question them, but as you people have hinted at, OEing creates the same playing field just as if no school were doing it. Population size and tradition dictates the best of the best. "Dream as if you'll live forever; Live as if you'll die today." --James Dean

xk1 · Post by **xk1** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:43 pm

Gee, maybe we could make them wear patches like the Stop patches in youth hockey. I suppose they could be pictures of Benidict Arnold.

Swoops26 · Post by **Swoops26** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:12 pm

Take it easy xk1. We feel ur shame. So you want them but you dont want to acknowledge them

hockeyrube · Post by **hockeyrube** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:16 pm

While I appreciate your satire, I think you are stretching our point to the furtherst extreme. On the other extreme is the notion that each of these O/E players has some very special reason for choosing to O/E (nothing to do with hockey), that none of us are intelligent enough to understand. Truthfully, I enjoyed watching EP play in the tournament. They have super talented kids, especially those 2 All-State defense who are totally shutdown kids !! They had the best team in the tournament - no question about it!!! But you have to admit, while they had a strong team of hometown kids, the O/E players put them over the edge - like frosting on a cake. So if that's the recipe for success in order to win championships - O/E will get out of hand quickly - it is just too easy to make it happen under the current rules. I do not wish to ostrocize any individual player for their O/E choice, but at the same time why allow people to pretend that it doesn't have any affect on a team's ability to win a championship- real hush hush like.

xk1 · Post by **xk1** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:24 pm

OE certainly does affect who has the best chance to win state. Can anyone remember the last team to win state without a transfer? I'm guessing Roseville, Park Center, perhaps SSP's first one. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... xk1>xk1</A> at: 3/3/06 1:30 pm

ItsNEBG · Post by **ItsNEBG** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:55 pm

I have been shown the error of my ways. And I was beginning to feel the love. Why, oh why can't we all just get along? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b">

hockeyhead · Post by **hockeyhead** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:08 pm

From what I know the Roseville team from the mid 90's had transfers! I'd have to check on that, but I'm pretty sure there were transfers! Elk River had all girls living in Elk River, with one moving into Elk River before the begining of her Junior year. Not for hockey from what I understand. Hockeyhead

xk1 · Post by **xk1** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:13 pm

Moving, not for hockey, isn't any different than OE not for hockey, a transfer is a transfer and she was an impact player.

Nostalgic Nerd · Post by **Nostalgic Nerd** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:34 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> While I appreciate your satire, I think you are stretching our point to the furtherst extreme. On the other extreme is the notion that each of these O/E players has some very special reason for choosing to O/E (nothing to do with hockey), that none of us are intelligent enough to understand. Truthfully, I enjoyed watching EP play in the tournament. They have super talented kids, especially those 2 All-State defense who are totally shutdown kids !! They had the best team in the tournament - no question about it!!! But you have to admit, while they had a strong team of hometown kids, the O/E players put them over the edge - like frosting on a cake. So if that's the recipe for success in order to win championships - O/E will get out of hand quickly - it is just too easy to make it happen under the current rules. I do not wish to ostrocize any individual player for their O/E choice, but at the same time why allow people to pretend that it doesn't have any affect on a team's ability to win a championship- real hush hush like.<hr></blockquote> How do you propose changing rules that could well be construed as discriminating the said OEer? Can only those students transfering do so because of education reasons? And the impossibility of achieving such because the only way that practice would be a success is by allowing only non-athletes to transfer. That way you are more likely to get academic reasons for the switch in the first place. Meaning if they wanted to join a sport, they couldn't because it would be breaking the transfer requirements. But maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. "Dream as if you'll live forever; Live as if you'll die today." --James Dean

xk1 · Post by **xk1** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:15 pm

If you go to the MN Education site and read up on OE you will find there is no mention of either academics or athletics or for that matter, nothing about any requirement for a reason to transfer. You will also find that 30,000 students transferred using OE last year. Many communites offer a way to transfer from another school district without using OE. There is nothing in the MSHSL documents that talk about reaons for transfer either. If you check the actual statutes regarding OE there is no mention of reasons for transfer. So where does all this questioning of transfer reasons come from?

FACMAN · Post by **FACMAN** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:09 pm

The Benedict Arnold post may be the best post ever. I hope everyone, pro or con OE, gets the chuckle out of it that I know XK1 intended. It's a classic.

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