Twins Winning Drought

Irishmans Shanty · Post by **Irishmans Shanty** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:05 pm

Three going on four, you know tomorrow will be the fourth. If not for a Lew Ford walk on Wednesday night, it would be five going on six. The Yankee and A's wins were nice, but you need to beat your division, right now these guys aren't even competing. Hafner, Konerko, Dye, and Thome are clearly guys that this team will not retire in a meaningful at bat with men in scoring position this season. Is it possible for a major league three, four, or five hitter to look more comfortable at the plate than Thome, Konerko, and Dye. It's not just tonight, but go back to last year as well. It's not just that the Twins can't win in Comiskey or the Jake, see how many innings that they have even had a lead in those parks over the last two years. Face it, the Twins are playing for third in the division, they can NOT beat the Sox or the Indians..period.

boblee · Post by **boblee** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:06 pm

The Twins will win tomorrow. They just need to get a win going into the KC sweep. That way they'll be 4-5 in the division and 11-10 overall after the Royals series. Grand Rapids-2006 State Runner Up

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:06 am

The starting pitching, aside from the rookie Baker, has been awful. Santana's ERA - 4.81, Radke's - 7.50, Silva's - 7.59, Lohse's - 11.57. Still only 1 quality start in 17 games, that's pathetic. The Twins pitching ranks 29th in ERA, 29th in hits allowed, and 29th in strikeouts. The starting pitching was supposed to be the strength of the club, luckily the bats have kept the Twins around .500. I thought the pitching would improve, but in fact it's gone the other way and traditionaly the pitching starts the season further along than hitting. Loshe needs to go to Rochester and let Liriano take his spot. Most telling statistic for the Twins; Joe Nathan, the second best closer in baseball, has pitched only 1 inning so far this year in 17 games and it's not because he has been hurt.

Blue Breeze · Post by **Blue Breeze** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:39 pm

First, a few stat corrections: There have been 2 quality starts, and Nathan has thrown 4 innings. I understand your points. The pitching needs to be a lot better, it's pathetic right now and Silva is getting roughed up again today. Liriano needs to be given a shot because he has displayed nothing but dominance out of the pen. I can't imagine he will be left down there much longer. Hopefully this team can get healthy against the Royals.

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:19 pm

It's interseting the difference in stats depending on who you use, ESPN has Nathan with 4 appearances after today, Yahoo and TSN (the one I used) both have him with 1 prior to today. ESPN also attributes 1 quality start individualy to Santana, Baker and Loshe but gives the Twins as a team zero.

sterfry9 · Post by **sterfry9** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:40 pm

if liriano comes into the rotation who do you think they will take out? seems like it should be lohse or silva...silva is or thought he was suppose to be a ground ball kind of pitcher but you dont see him getting alot of ground ball outs this year

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:03 pm

The 4th -7th place hitters aren't doing the Twins many favors either. Sierra (.200), White (.149), Morneau (.215), and Hunter (.229) with that kind of hitting from your production part of the line up it's really pretty amazing the Twins aren't worse off than they are, though 6 GB after 18 games isn't exactly pretty. How long does Terry Ryan stand pat with this group? The talent's there to compete and frankly the Twins are underachieving something terrible.

boblee · Post by **boblee** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:36 pm

Twins need to go: 1. Santana 2. Baker 3. Liriano 4. Radke 5. Lohse Pen: Mop Up. Silva Mop Up. Eyre Middle. Rincon Middle. Crain Middle. Guerrier Set Up. Balfour Closer. Nathan They don't need to touch a thing offensively. Hitting is contagious and it will come soon. Grand Rapids-2006 State Runner Up

Blue Breeze · Post by **Blue Breeze** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:48 pm

They really struggled offensively with Castillo and Stewart out this weekend, with them back the runs should come. Goldy is right though, White, Hunter, and Morneau need to step up. I am one of the few who is on the Morneau bandwagon, I think he can hit 35 homers with a pretty respectable average. I think Torri peaked in his contract year and will hit no better than .265. White will get hot one of these days, he has proven over a long career that he can hit. Pitching is a huge concern, Santana doesn't worry me, he will be fine. Baker has looked pretty solid. Other than that, it has been slim pickings. Lohse had one impressive start sandwiched by two horrible ones. Silva has looked dreadful, and Radke has been bitten by the home run bug. (When isn't he) Liriano has to be somewhere in the rotation right now, he has too much of an upside and has been the best pitcher in the Twins pen this year. Crain has struggled but I don't expect that to become a trend. Rincon is finally getting into form after missing all of spring, and Nathan hasn't gotten a chance to make an impact. This team will finish over .500, but it's going to be tough to overtake the White Sox or the Indians, let alone the throng of other teams in the AL that are going to be contenders.

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:53 am

I'd sub Silva for Lohse, other than that your rotation makes sense at this point for me, boblee. I was out of town till Sunday afternoon, so I missed Radke's Saturday catastrophe. From the paper on Sunday it sounded like he's at a loss, did he throw the changeup and still get bombed? He has to pick it up or I might end up over on packerboy's side regarding him. I am also worried about Crain, it doesn't seem like he's done anything this year. The offense should be better with Stewart back and hopefully Castillo can heal quickly. I like their lineup with everyone healthy but they're in trouble when people get hurt.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:15 am

Well ChrisK, whats the excuse this time for your hero Radke? Still cant find his grip? I think the Twins need to get a grip and figure out that the only way to stay in this thing is to get Liriano in the rotation so they at least have a chance to win games. If the 9 million dollar man comes around great but dont hold your breath. I'd sit Silva first. Put him in the pen and maybe bring him in and see if he can get anybody out in mid relief. If Radke continues to bomb, I dont know what Id do but they can't keep sending him out there. Its like BP for the other team.

Blue Breeze · Post by **Blue Breeze** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:12 am

I think this could be the end of an era for this Twins team, next year the roster could look entirely different. I think guys like Radke, Hunter, Lohse, Stewart and Cuddyer, staples of the Twins roster this decade, will most likely be gone. Next years lineup could look something like this: 1-Castillo 2B 2-Span CF 3-Mauer C 4-White DH 5-Morneau 1B 6-Moses/Winfree 3B 7-Kubel RF 8-Ford LF 9-Bartlett SS Rotation 1-Santana 2-Baker 3-Liriano 4-Silva 5-Perkins Bullpen Eyre Rincon Crain Bonser Free Agent Nathan It could be a rebuilding phase.

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:42 pm

I got back on Sunday, saw that Radke got shelled and knew I was in for it from packerboy. I didn't see the game, all I can go from is the quotes in the paper and he said he was having trouble with his control. Well, if he's having trouble with location he's toast, a grip on a pitch is a lot easier to find than accuracy. This does concern me, but he has gone through periods where he's been shelled and then turned it around. Let's hope he can do it again because as packerboy said it'll be tough to figure out what to do if he can't. I would expect the Twins to re-sign Hunter, but the rest of the guys Blue B lists will likely be gone. If Stewart can stay healthy and they can get him relatively cheap he might be worth keeping, because he is a professional hitter.

Wild4hockey · Post by **Wild4hockey** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:15 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>but he has gone through periods where he's been shelled and then turned it around<hr></blockquote> That sums up his career for the most part. Anyone who watches the twins enough, knows that you expect Radke to give up a lot of hits. Typically he will spot a team 2-4 runs in the first 2 innings and then settle down. We are critical of Radke because we have to put up with him and his style all year, but he makes interesting trade bait. I have a bad feeling about where this twins team will end up this season. It is way to early to rule them out, but they have not been able to beat the chisox at all over the past 2 years (7-14). We all are familiar with the Twins budget, the players they acquired are not going to be the springboard them into the playoffs. I think we will see Tori traded and Kubel will move up and play everyday next to Ford, and Stewart. Hopefully we can get some young defense to patrol SS or 2B. We are strong in pitching, but up the middle we are weak. With Morneau and Mauer as our future RBI men I think a guy to get on base like Stewart does will be a great addition. Unless our twins get hot soon we are all going to be looking at a long, frustrating summer.

Irishmans Shanty · Post by **Irishmans Shanty** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:58 pm

I think MLB has secretly altered this year's baseballs to benefit hitters. League wide pitchers are getting hammered, the baseballs used this year are not moving or sinking. I believe MLB, (which still refuses to acknowledge their negligence in policing steriods a decade ago), will make the case at season's end that steroid use was not as widespread because '06 offensive numbers are similar to the "steroid era". MLB, with its forsight, will combat the accusations of a "juiced ball" by saying Greg Maddux has had the best year of his career. I believe Greg Maddux is also a part of the conspiracy, MLB is allowing him to put Vaseline on the ball to improve his stuff. MLB has gone from promoting Incredible Hulks to skinny forty year old men. Conclusion, the Twins pitching staff and their dink and dunk pitchers are being sacrificed in an effort for MLB to get its credibility back.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:08 am

There realy is no other explanation for it Irish. People will dismiss your theory with all that crap about things being cyclical and how that's baseball etc. etc. but stick to your guns. You are definitley on to something here. They were going to contract us but when that didnt happen , they pulled this.

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:27 am

Conspiracy theories aside, one thing to keep in mind is that the Twins' schedule has been very tough and the pitchers have faced some very good lineups.

Wild4hockey · Post by **Wild4hockey** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:39 pm

I really don't know what to think about the Twins. We start the season 1-5, then we take 5 of 6 against the A's and Yankees. Then the White Sox demolish us. It will be good for the boys to play the Royals and Tigers to get their confidence back up.

Blue Breeze · Post by **Blue Breeze** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:10 pm

No confidence gained yet. We have 2 hits through 5 innings off Scott freakin' Elarton. Lohse can't find the zone, and the Twins look sluggish. These are games we need to take.

Irishmans Shanty · Post by **Irishmans Shanty** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:13 pm

I'll tell you what the Twins are, they are a 74-84 win team. Whether it is the high end or the low end it doesn't matter, post-season isn't happening. All we can hope for is they play hard, compete, and hit the ball enough so that an early two or three run deficit doesn't mean an automatic loss. The Yanks and A's combined are 18-19, the Indians and Sox are 23-14. The Yanks and A's could be the better clubs come August, but up to this point they haven't. It's not always how good you are, rather it is how good you are playing. The Twins may have caught the Yanks and A's at a good time and as far as the Sox and Indians, the Twins just don't match up.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:55 am

Morneau looks liks he has never played baseball before. Hunter is terrible right now. Mauer has no power. His flyball last night will go in the books as a game winning RBI but the only thing weaker was the left fielders arm. Rincon was just plain lucky. With 2 outs he walks a guy on 4 pitches so he gets to face Sweeney with 2 guys on. He leaves a pitch up and luckily Sweeney just missed it so Stewart could catch it. Get Sierra in the lineup as the DH. If you still belive in White put him in right field. Let these guys see how a real pro does it. Some of these at bats are just plain bad and especially with guys on. They barely beat a team that wont win 60 games and were lucky at that. Lets win a few before Radke pitches again.

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:33 am

By the numbers it looks like Lohse pitched a good game last night. Morneau is hitless in his last four games. The stats show that he's hitting better at home than on the road. The Twins site on MLB.com has a cool page where you can see where each hitter is hitting the ball and for Morneau it's at: <a href="http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/NASApp/m ...  It looks like at home Morneau is hitting to all fields, but last weekend in Chicago almost all his outs went to right field which suggests he was trying to pull the ball every time. To get out of his slump he'll need to start hitting the ball where it's pitched particularly late in the count.

sterfry9 · Post by **sterfry9** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:45 am

lohse had a nice outting...yes he struggled finding the zone but he got out of the jams....and blue breeze is right the twins are not a playoff team with the indians and white sox in our division at least with the talent on those teams right now...and i was not really satisfied with the game last night either...they won but that fly ball was WEAK and a DECENT throw coulda gunned punto or castro out (i dont know which one was on base)...go TWINKIES<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat">

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:53 am

It was Punto pinch running for Sierra. Lohse is everybody's whipping boy but for a 4th or 5th starter, he is just fine. Its the top of the rotation that hasnt done well. Both Radke and Silva have stunk. Santana doesnt have a win. Morneau is just painful to watch some nights.

Blue Breeze · Post by **Blue Breeze** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:25 am

A win is a win, it wasn't pretty. If Lohse can pitch like he did last year, he will be a solid 4 or 5. The thing that bothers me is he probably has the second best stuff in the rotation behind Santana, and the potential to be a # 2. I still think Morneau can be the power guy this team needs, although my confidence goes down with each poor at-bat.

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Twins Winning Drought

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starting pitching

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