IGH/SSP merger at bantams.

[freighttrain]

Sounds like Inver Grove Heights and South St. Paul will merge their Bantam programs starting next season. I believe the teams will be called River Heights.

[Pucknutz69]

They will problay drop down to the B level so they are competitive.

[movethepuck]

that's great news for two associations who are struggling with numbers. also great for dist. 8

[Pucknutz69]

Yeah it worked out really good for them last year. Not putting an A team together and going unbeaten at the B level. I can see how that worked real well for their development. Mean while smaller assc. like Farmington and northfield stood in the A ranks and took their licks. I agree SSP has to do something for their players.

[movethepuck]

wow, that's brutal. People like pucknutz create a lot of problems in small associations. have to have an A team because dad played A when he was a kid. When his kid's A team goes 1-15, that's OK because his kid's an A player. Opponents play the bckup goalie, the fourth line and switch up the defense and the forwards. Parents quit going to the games because they know it'll be a blowout. Pucknutz, tell us what that does for development.
But if an association fields an B team, no A team and they are sucessful, they must be sandbagging. Princeton was 3rd in the state in B bantams this year and had no A team. If they knew they were going to be that sucessful would they have played A? Who knows. The point is small associations like Princeton, SSP, IGH, Farmington, Northfield and many others in the metro area have a tough decision before each season about what levels to play at. Once in a while a team over achieves and has a very sucessful season. That's what I would call sucess(and development).

[Pucknutz69]

I am from a smaller assc. we had 43 kids tryout last year about the same as IGH. We played an A schedule. We had 10 first year bantams on our A team and only 3 returning A bantams. You think A caliber players skating at the B level is going to help them? How many kids did Princeton have tryout?

I also believe they had 1 B team and 2 C teams. The other C team didn't play a District schedule. They were killing everyone they played at the C level. I have coached at every level and seen if you want to get better and develop you have to play better players not the other way around.

So it's fair to have 2 lines of A caliber players skate at the B level and blow out the other smaller associations than skate an A team? Why is it fair for them to skate down and blowout teams at the B level?

I am trying to understand how I created such a huge problem for smaller associations? What I stated was the truth, playing at the B level did nothing for their "Development" if you count wins as developing, then you are the one creating problems. You just want trophies and wins, it doesn't matter if the kids have to work hard just as long as they are all smiling and their equipment doesn't stink from too much sweat.

They did the same crap at the squirt level a few years back, skated 2 B teams when they easiliy had A caliber players. Then when they lost a kid off of one team to injury they brought the 2 best kids off the other team to play, if it's about development why not bring the kid that needed more help?

You don't see schools teaching all the kids the same math, english or reading levels do you? No they move the kids up when they are ready and keep pushing them they don't move them down and expect them to learn more do they? It has nothing to do with what daddy did.

Again I agree SSP needs to figure something out because they are losing players, the community is old and the people moving in aren't typical hockey families, it would take a lot to get them involved with it. Not to mention it is not the most finacially wealthy area around. Lower housing values doesn't attract families that can afford hockey any more. They don't have the set up like Johnson that has equipment for the players.

[cmf]

I believe this merger is neede by South St. Paul buty not by Inver Grove. They have to play at the A level because with this combonation they will have one of the biggest Associations in D8.

[Pucknutz69]

Movethepuck,

Let me explain what went down last year.

IGH put 1 B team and 2 C teams together, no A team because they lost a couple to JV, who hasn't had that happen. They loaded up one of the C teams and started the year 5-0 nad beating everyone bad. They won 3 tournaments over the year as a C team. The District moved them out of the District play and they scrimmaged some B teams, did well against some and losing to the others. Hastings B team played them and beat them 5-0, 10-0 and Hastings took the last playoff spot in their division. District 8 has 2 B divisions and each sends 6 to the playoffs. Top 4 get seated and the rest have a wildcard games. They gave IGH C team a free pass, bypassing Lakeville and Rosemount who both had 3-12 records, and let them have a play in game vs CG the night before the playoffs started. They lost 5-2.

So you tell me how this worked out for them? If they would have skated an A, 1 B and 1 C like the other teams of their size in District 8 we wouldn't be talking about this. It was a waste of a season for both the B team and the floating C team, money well spent for those parents don't you think? Lots of development there. You would have been happy though seen as how they both won a few trophies.

[cmf]

I totally agree wit you pucknutz. Stacking B teams does nothing good for the players because they do not get the development they would geat at an A level. MY association is about the size of IGH and 2 years ago we lost 7 players to high schools and still competed at the A level. IF IGH and SSP play at a B level they give the players a disservice.

[gopherhockey33]

i know why they are doing this but at high school they are going to get clobbered. they will lose the "A" players from the other asssociation and they will be last or close to it

[shoot to thrill]

When an association decides to move down a level there is always a chance that they might dominate the league. Most associations don't want that to happen but you always risk it. If that occurs, they end up having a 'tainted' season because everyone in the league knows they didn't field a A level team. DEVELOPMENT occurs primarily at practice not during games and whether you declare an an A or B team your practices are with the same players and therefore your development will be the same.

The only benefit to playing down a level is that you could have a chance of winning more games and therefore keep the kids spirits up. Personally, I would rather my sons team lose games and be challenged at a higher level than dominate a lower level and I think a good coach can find other ways to make the kids have a positive result even in a losing season. Going into a season knowing that it is going to be a tough year because they are playing at the highest level makes the players understand how hard they will have to work to even win a game or two. That one victory over a high ranked team or the growth of the team through hard work or the extra effort that helps the 'underdog' stay close in a game can all help kids have fun while playing at the highest level.

Kids can't all be champions and it's good to learn HOW to have fun even when you are not always winning. It may not put a banner in the rafters or a trophy in the case but it will help them learn a vital life lesson.

[hockeyjoc451]

the merge is a good thing because in both associations there are kids who are easily A bantam players who either just want to play A bantams because they get more games or because they are going to a private school where it is much harder to make a high school team then at simley or SSP and yes maybe they will have a season where they lose a lot more games then they win but the players that have a chance to go far in hockey need it so they can develop faster and better

[bug]

Pucknutz,

I thought you should have a little more information about the IGH Banatam program in 2005-2006. It was not just a couple of players that moved up to jv or varsity. They lost sixteen bantam eligible kids to the high school programs. Nine would have been returning A players and 4 played on the bantam A team in the previous year. That is a tough blow for any association the size of IGH to handle.

I do not think anyone in the association was trying to stack the B team. Based on what the association lost, the B level seemed appropriate.

Have a nice day.

Bug

[freighttrain]

IGH also had only 2 teams at the Bantam level last year not 3. Again This merger is only at the Bantam level. An "A" team will be fielded. IGH is in control of the teams from my understanding also.

[Pucknutz69]

They had 3 teams. 1 B and 2 C. it only shows the 1 C team on district web site.

[movethepuck]

I guess it's hard to form an educated opinion if you have your facts all wrong, Pucknutz.
After various high schools took the 16 bantams from IGH last season they were left with 29 players. None of them were A bantam players the year before, only 2 were returning bantam B. The 2 bantam teams they fielded started the season B & C. After the C team won their first tournament and a couple of league games, they decided, along with Dist. 8, to move up to the B level but since B schedules were already set would have to play only scrimmages. They played at the B level the balance of the season and were competitive against B2 competition.

The original B team was in a weak division in Dist. 8, but played a strong schedule of B1 scrimmages. They were about .500 outside of Dist. 8.

The developement for the players on the original B team was obvious to anyone who knows the facts. 13 b & c players worked hard, played as a team, believed in themselves and over achieved. It was the first IGH bantam team to advance to regions in many years. If not for 3 players getting injured during playoffs, you could have seen that team in the state tournament.
Or they could have gone 1-15 at the A level and quit playing hockey. It is very clear that IGH made the right decision and played at the proper level with this team.

[hockeyjoc451]

freighttrain was right IGH only had 2 teams 1B and 1C.

[GoEV]

Sounds like the merger was the right call by D8. Let the A, B and C kids play at the right level -- stop the perpetual worrying about the rest of it.