WHY ISN'T THERE A U14A VFW LEAGUE?

[212FORECHECK]

Why isnt there a girls U14A (or B?) VFW league?

[ghshockeyfan]

Good question. I assume part of this is that there are so many U14's playing HS whereas the same isn't true for boys of this age...

[212FORECHECK]

I thought the VFW league was just additional games in an additional league?

Even if it added say 20 games that would be huge for the gals no?

[elliott70]

You would have to contact the VFW sports director - hockey.
I believe he is out of Fergus Falls.
They do have a web site, but do not know it off the top of my head.

[Rinkrat95]

Is this where we hear TITLE 9 again???

[SportsMa]

http://www.district15hockey.org/

This takes you to the District 15 website which has links to the associations, including FF. It may help you out~don't know if it is what is being referred to in a prior post.

[212FORECHECK]

Is this where we hear TITLE 9 again???

No, title 9 is for HS... the reason I ask is that eventually as girls hockey evolves, the U14 level (like A Bantams) must have some way to provide "value" on a bigger scale versus just moving to the HS and playing JV. One problem the larger associations face is the mis-conceived belief that practicing every day on JV and playing 20 games that mean nothing (and you can end up not playing much at all...) is superior to playing a 40+ game schedule with nearly as many practices and throw in 3-4 tournaments and a chance to play for districts/reigons/state/nationals...
I think that by achieving what the A bantam level has with this additional league will not only make U14s' more attractive but will better prepare the future players for HS/Varsity.

[ghshockeyfan]

Is this where we hear TITLE 9 again???

No, title 9 is for HS... the reason I ask is that eventually as girls hockey evolves, the U14 level (like A Bantams) must have some way to provide "value" on a bigger scale versus just moving to the HS and playing JV. One problem the larger associations face is the mis-conceived belief that practicing every day on JV and playing 20 games that mean nothing (and you can end up not playing much at all...) is superior to playing a 40+ game schedule with nearly as many practices and throw in 3-4 tournaments and a chance to play for districts/reigons/state/nationals...
I think that by achieving what the A bantam level has with this additional league will not only make U14s' more attractive but will better prepare the future players for HS/Varsity.

I think title IX comes into play in any setting where there is public funding (especially federal?). I could be wrong on this. I don't think that this is the point of this concept/post though...

What is an issue is the problem that exists in some communities. There needs to be an intermediate step between U12 & HS V hockey. What should that be? Should it be U14? Should it be JV? Should it be some combination? What happens to players that are late bloomers then? (too old for a U14 but not ready for V)? There are some options on the horizon in U19 district wide teams, etc. as mentioned.

Collaboration is needed between the HS & youth programs. When this doesn't happen, that's the worst thing. It can't all be about one or the other, and instead needs to be about what is best for the most kids in a community.

Sometimes, communities are faced with a set of bad options. But, that should drive them to investigate what they need to do to grow their programs. The single best solution is for all communities to grow their youth program, and that's hard because with so much HS coach turnover it's not likely that a HS coach will "dig in" and work to see this happen.

There are arguments & misconceptions about the game count and practice benefit of JV vs. youth, etc. The facts are the facts however. The problem is that the facts in one program likely aren't the facts in another, etc. Each HS JV & youth U14 is different in some ways as it is shaped by the individual situation in that community. The coaches, philosophy/approach, numbers, ice time, game schedule, etc. are all different from one community to another as well as from JV to U14, etc.

Some will argue that many of the best HS eligible players will come to HS and that we'll never see those players at U14. I agree that this does happen, but we see the same thing in boys Bantams year-after-year. What's the difference? Boys Bantam hockey isn't the same as Girls U14 hockey. The Boys HS program has been around since 1940's MSHSL wise and even before that as far back as the 1920's & earlier. Boys hockey is developed. Our girls hockey is basically the equivalent of the 1950's boys game. How well developed was the youth structure back then for boys? That's where we're at for girls U14 now.

I would say that the USA H switch from U15 to U14 & U16 was one of the worst things that I've ever seen. MN H tried to fix it by going to the July cutoff so it became U14.5, but in hindsight we should have went U16 - and even then that may not have made a difference. I think this forced many JV's and less U14 unfortunately. As a result, U14 can be as volatile opponent & general quality wise as any JV program.

I don't believe that U14 or JV is always better than one another just because they are called U14 or JV. Again, many factors that differ from community to community play a role in the choice between the two.

That being said, ideally we'd have only kids that have aged out of U14 playing HS. Can you imagine how many more HS co-ops & U14 teams we'd see as a result? This won't happen though without major changes.

While we're discussing some facts though, I should point out some things to consider too:

***The JV season runs from November until February. The JV season is shorter than youth duration wise.

***Depending on the HS program however, players could practice nearly twice as much as youth as the season is more compact. You need to look at the actual practice hour count to know for certain. To determine the quality of a JV, you need to consider the coach, approach, etc. - A larger quantity of hours in a poor quality situation aren't necessarily better! It's also important to note that some players may skate Varsity practice in addition to JV, although this may be rare in some programs?

***JV has at most 25 regular season games that are typically 2x a week. JV's play three 15 or 17 minute stop-time periods (typically up to host team/conf.). Depending on the youth schedule there are usually more games but they may be fit into a certain time slot and may use running time. It is also important to note that some players may skate some Varsity in addition to JV - up to 4 periods in one day total of JV & V.

***JV's rarely have tournaments, but some do exist. JV tourneys must not play more than 1 game a day due to MSHSL rules.

***Youth & JV both may do some scrimmages over the course of the season. Both tend to be an hour in duration but can be longer.

***If a player is on the JV or U14 team, they can typically expect to play a regular shift in games/events. A JV player's playing time can change as the season progresses based on Varsity team needs and player progression/development relative to their peers. At the Varsity level, typically players will play based on their ability level, with the best players playing the most. Again, some players may skate portions of both JV & Varsity games (up to 4 periods in a day) or other events based on their ability, personal development needs, and team needs.

*** #1 question that parents must ask relative to their daughter & her team decision: "Is my daughter ready (both physically and emotionally/socially) to be playing with/against some players as old as 18 years of age?"

*** Youth vs. JV team composition & approach are critical considerations. You need to ask: "Will the opportunity be geared towards a development/age appropriate environment?" Regardless of the environment, JV will still run into stronger/older/more mature opponents that are far better than any top youth teams, but the quality can vary greatly. U14 opponents can vary greatly too, but won't have the stronger/older/more mature HS upperclassmen.

***Strongly suggested that families speak with the JV & V coaching staff if they have questions about any of this. Ask how these items will be addressed. It is also suggested that families consider speaking with the JV/Varsity 7th-9th grader families from the past couple years if they have any questions as to the experience. Do your homework.

***There is no "State Tourney" for JV. Unless the JV's do a season-ending event, they likely stop playing with the last regular season conference game the first week in Feb. Some players may get to skate with the varsity for the remainder of the V season (Sections & State?) until V eliminated or State is done if they qualify. U14 has chance to play for districts/regions/state - although I don't believe that we send U14's to nationals anymore? I know the Shattuck U16 goes and the winner of the Shatuck/T-breds for U19 however... U19B just plays state, but not sure on U14, etc.



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MAYBE a collaboration between U14 & HS JV would be best termed a "VFW" League allowing these groups to play against one another for an additional 20 games a year pre-HS tryouts & post-HS JV season (Feb). Maybe you at least do a post-season tourney like State for HS V (sections then finals), but I'd still do a separate U14 state for true U14 teams later. No V player from the year prior would be eligible and the HS coaches couldn't coach... This is probably too complex to ever work though...