Will Refs Call Things Tightly This Season?

[hshockeyfan91]

I know that USA Hockey / MN Hockey has cracked down significantly on obstruction related plays this season. My question is whether or not people think this will happen in HS hockey as well. I don't believe that HS Refs have to be USA Hockey registered, but rather MSHSL registered. Are there going to be some refs calling a tight game (the ones also USA Hockey registered), and others calling things the way they used to be? Is the MSHSL also pushing to limit obstruction?

Most important, no matter what is said, do you believe refs will follow through and call lots of penalties as long as it takes to clean things up, or will it be a temporary thing - for a few games only?

[ghshockeyfan]

I assume that HS G refs will follow the Boys lead as well as college/USA H/NHL. We saw a crackdown on this stuff @ the G HS level before the NHL went on strike. The problem then was that it was called extremely tight for 2-3 weeks and there was so much complaining (I heard it was from coaches) that they let up.

I'd prefer that we just call this tight from beginning to end and let teams learn to adjust or rack up 50+ PM each game. I commend the NHL for not changing for playoffs.

I also like this as I have a real young team, so I'm biased. Other coaches with experienced/mature teams will hate this as first as all the things that kids have been coached to do to gain an advantage will now be watched more closely...

[hshockeyfan91]

I think calling the games one way for a few weeks and then switching (even gradually) to a looser standard is foolish, so I hope we don't repeat stuff from a years ago.

When I watch college and pro games refs are calling penalities even late in the game and in OT - that never used to happen - the whistles used to be swallowed by the 3rd period in close games.

I do hope that for teh girls refs focus on obstruction, not just contact. So often you see calls when a player falls, but virtually nothing when a player is held up, but doesn't fall.

I guess we'll know in just a few weeks how things are going!

[ghshockeyfan]

I guess I feel that calls need to be blatant at the end of close games. Just my opinion. Call it if it's legit, but if questionable...

Besides that, I think we will see some contact vs. obstruction calls w/bigger players (or player left standing) heading to PBox. This will be worse at first but improve as time goes on.

I too hope they stick to it. My tune has changed a bit on this since the initial attempt that I loudly complained (or at least commented on) on this board some time ago...

Of course, the composition of my team typically dicates my bias.

[wings7811]

Of course, the composition of my team typically dicates my bias.[/quote]

As a coach that understands the game of hockey (from your past input and commentary I believe you to be quite knowledgeable and a positive advocate of GHS Hockey) why should the "composition of your team" dictate your feelings concerning the rules of hockey and how they should be interpreted. Because you may coach a young or inexperienced team should your players get the benefit when they play against an older, more experienced team? I don't believe you meant the comment to be interpreted in this manner but ...

To all GHS coaches and players, good luck, it is great to watch GHS Hockey and have fun this season. As a new season starts it is truly "a great day for hockey" for both girls and boys.

[ghshockeyfan]

I think you have the interpratation of my commentary correct. I fought the tougher rules a bit (or at least complained) a while back when they were tried. Now, I simply meant that it's easier for me to be supportive of the rules changes with a young/inexperienced team vs an older/experienced one. I'd highly question any coach that wasn't considering supporting that which was in the best interest of his/her team, and maybe coincidentially, the game in this case. Just trying to be one of the few that will state their bias!

Welcome to the 2006-7 season everyone!

[hshockeyfan91]

One disappointing thing about the SSM Tournament this past weekend was that it appeared that most of the referees had no idea that there is an initive to change the way games are called.

The games were generally called virtually the same as they have always been in two keys ways: 1) someone falls over - there must have been a penalty, so look for the closest opponent, regardless of the impact on the game and 2) hooking above the waist with sticks when a player is beat, blocking (like the Vikings need on the line!), etc. were largely met with yawns from the ref's. Looked like "business as usual" to me. Disappointing to say the least!

[Lightningstrikes]

Just last weekend i played in a ACHA tourney in I'falls. The new rules totally wrecked the games. There was aleast 15 penalties called a game almost all of which normally wouldnt have been called if it wasn't for the rule change. I can only hope that most other refs dont take such a strict interpretation of the new rule.

[boblee]

i honestly think the new rules are a good idea...but it completely changes the game, something players who have been playing for 5-10 years or more can't just wake up and change one day.

[ghshockeyfan]

This is going to take a period of acclimation - maybe longer than many realize.

[Lightningstrikes]

Girls hockey has always lacked the amount of agressiveness that the boys have. I worry that the new rules will only help to make them less agressive.

[ghshockeyfan]

We shall see.

[boblee]

yeah. i guess we'll have to see.

[ghshockeyfan]

What I've found is that being passive vs. agressive is always an issue. Passive is defensively oriented, but I prefer a player that's overly agressive that you have to try to hold back a bit vs. one that never gets after it. I always tell my players to make the mistake of being agressive vs. passive. We may get beat this way, but at least it won't happen due to lack of attempt. We'll make the adjustments/corrections/take the penalties, etc. that come with this approach.

[hockeyrube]

I see alot of positives with the rule changes. It will take some time for the players to adjust, but in the end it will be a much more fun game to watch. Just look at the NHL.... it took about 1/2 a season for the players to adjust, but now the tugging and hooking and interference is virtually gone. We are left with a more pure skating style of hockey. The smaller skilled players have more opportunity to make plays (I.E. Bouchard for the Wild). If the NHL can get rid of the tugging, hooking, and interference than certainly girls hs hockey can ??? We can still teach the kids to be aggressive, and use body angling to rub opposing players out, etc etc. IMO - there was a little too much of the tugging, clutching, hooking, interference in girls hockey - believe me it will be a good thing to clean it up and speed up the pace of the game. For those coaches that teach the tugging etc you will now have to teach your kids to skate - too bad.

Rube

[ghshockeyfan]

Well, I found out tonight that indeed some Refs Will Call Things Tightly This Season...

My team took 9 penalties in the last 19 minutes of our game, and the shot count went from 22-5 at that point to 24-24 by game's end. Almost all the calls were hooking as was expected to be watched closely under the new rule set.

I went and watched a few minutes of NSP/Park too tonight, and it looked like a little more was being let go there than where I was in the W metro. When I left it was 2-0 NSP with about 2 minutes left and NSP just wrapping up a PP.

[Thunderbird77]

Because ghshockey used his team as an example of a lot of penalties in the last minutes of a game, I looked at the specifics of the game report. The penalty stats summarize as follows
Simley Mound
P1 2 2
P2 5 4
P3 6 2
Score 5 1

Simley had 3 Power Play goals, Mound had 1. Without the penalties, it would have been a 2 - 0 game. There were 3 players on Simley's team that got 3 penalties each (ie 9 out of 13 total). All of these girls were seniors. Last year, two of them averaged 2+ penalty ninutes per game under the OLD system. (One had 64 PM in 23 games. One had 46 PM in 25 games. )

Interestingly enough, the shot ratio was almost the exact opposite of the penalty minutes.
Simley Mound
P1 14 2
P2 8 9
P3 2 13
It looks like something happened in the third period that led to a higher penalty count and a lower shot count for Simley.

If this is to be taken as an example, it looks like there are three take-aways:
1) Coaches need to make sure their teams can score on the PP and defend on the PK. Simley is a great example of this, as the above stats attest.
2) Coaches need to look at their players from last year that drew the most penalties and introduce them to a new style of play that makes the most of their abilities without being supplemented by illegal activities that only slow the game down. MN hockey has a great video on their web-site that describes how the new rules will be enforced. All players should watch this video.
3) Teams will need to play all 3 periods with discipline and composure. Picking up the play will need mean skating harder and moving the puck. Players that get tired and use their stick to hook instead of their blade to pass will hurt their team.

[ghshockeyfan]

Those new rules could have cost us had we not built a 5 goal lead. Lots of good 5v3 practice though... And the PP for us was 50% (3 of 6) to the oppositions 1 of 11... 90%+ PK is always good too... But it's only game 1 & NC...

http://www.esportsdesk.com/leagues/hock ... eID=303285

The other thing I noticed is that either being up by 5 on the road didn't help in the eyes of the officials - or, how tightly the game was called changed from period 1 to period 3 for some reason (most definitely). Interestingly, the team didn't seem to get tired - played 6D & 3 lines almost all night. We're also one of the better conditioned teams I believe. So I don't buy the "we got lazy, stopped moving our feet, and started using our sticks" interpretation on this one - but in general that's a good point I believe

It just seemed any time we had contact the arm went up in the third. Interestingly, I would have expected more interference for this, or even body checking, but instead many were called "hooks" which was interesting. Not complaining at all, just commenting.

We spent 2+ hours of practice on special teams. So, I agree that this aspect of the game needs to be well practiced until players acclimate to the rules and we see less penalties.

Re: Older/Stronger players adjusting, we have stated that there would be more penalties, but we don't want the players to interpret a statement about this to mean to play passive, not be agressive, not play a strong game and use body leagally, etc. You have to be VERY careful about telling players to "Change their game" I believe, as it can be a huge problem if they back off too much.

In my opinion, the rules from night to night will change slightly, but will still be more strict than before. Like a pitcher in baseball, you find what the ump will give you strikezone wise by pushing the limits at first and then you know what you will get and not get that game. Similarly, the same is true in girls hockey re: physical play. The sad part for us was that we felt that we had a good understanding of how the game was being called in the 1st and even through minute 15 of the 2nd, and then absolutely everything was called from that point forward (basically from the time that we were up 5-0 on a 22-5 shot count it all turned around in the last 19 minutes).

I will agree though, take away the special teams, and the shot count would have been far different (based on the first two periods) and the score may or may not have been different by game's end - I don't know...

[Thunderbird77]

Very interesting perspective on what happened in the Simley-Mound game. There is always more to the story than what the stats say.

The implication that the score was 5-0 Simley when the refs called the game one way and 1-0 Mound when it was called more tightly is interesting. In the end, the better team won. However, it is dangerous to think that refs would use the new rules to help even the score. What we need is a consistent application of the rules through all three periods and from game to game. Perhaps what Simley experienced was the refs getting used to the new rules and not a conscious decision to even the score? Only time will tell. For sure the change impacts everyone involved with the game-players, coaches, referees and spectators.

[ghshockeyfan]

I think that this illustrates that even a complete boxscore can be decieving. Meaning, the interpretation of taking stupid penalties due to fatigue is logical based on what you see in the complete boxscore. Now, think about when you see what you see in the paper... Usually you get at least PP/SH goal notation and full scoring summary, but no penalty count, etc. Then, take it a step further, think what we used to see in SportsHuddle, only shots/# of goals/assists per player, etc. MSHSL is the same way, as is the new MaxPreps.

This being said, one could look at even the Paper boxscore and think the game was quite even due to shot count, but the penalty summary tells the whole story in conjunction with shot count and scoring summary. Even then though, you'd never know that the shot count was what it was when those penalties started.

This all aside, I don't know that the refs were trying to even things out score wise, but the penalty calls changed drastically at the end of the 2nd. Up until that point the penalty count was nearly equal (not that this is intentional but it was what it was). After that, it just changed as the refs saw it. By no means did we feel that the officiating was poor. We did feel that it was inconsistent though from minute 15 through 3rd vs. 1st through minute 15 of 2nd. I actually got along real well with the officials yesterday in spite of all of this, and the killing was good practice for us too. The refs were very professional, fitness & effort was strong and they were in great position.

Bottom line, we're all adjusting, and I know I will need to see a COMPLETE box score from now on with penalty count to know how two teams match up (that is, if I don't see the game in person of course)...

[hocsocstud]

i dont think they should tighten up anything.. i watched a scrimmage this weekend where the girls were playing really really aggressive. And they were having fun, i believe allowing more aggressive board play hightens the competition. I dont want them to allow cheap hooking, tripping, or boarding but let them dig in the corners and fight for the puck... unless as a player you are really cheap, you shouldnt have to worry about skating next to a player and getting a penalty......

[Hockeydad13]

I believe all we can ever hope for is referee 'consistancy' from the time the puck is dropped for the first period, until the horn sounds in the third.

Amen

[ghshockeyfan]

I believe all we can ever hope for is referee 'consistancy' from the time the puck is dropped for the first period, util the horn sounds in the third.

Amen

Agreed.

[Baumdiggity]

When the ref calls too many penalties, it completely ruins the game. Calling the penalties instead of letting them play will not make girls hockey more skillful, because they dont allow checking as it is now. It's ridiculous how when a player falls down some refs feel the need to call a penalty. The obvious hookings, trippings, and slashings are already against the rules, and I don't see any need for a change in girls hockey. I don't think you can compare girls highschool hockey refs to the NHLs, and I dont think body contact in hockey should be automatically called either, even if its in girls.

[greybeard58]

When the referees call to many penalties they are just doing their job. The coaches either have not taught their players or the players just did not pay attention. As for letting them play, they are they are just enforcing the rule book for both teams. The nhl is a better game for the change and so is every level that has made the change. I hope that the Highschool league has the courage to keep with the standards of play. Keep your feet moving, stick down and hands off there should not be a problem. Also there is body contact just not checking and those that know the difference understand and those that do not complain.