I'm new to this forum and have been enjoying reading many of the fine threads here. I've read with interest the differnt opinions on many subjects.
One subject that interest me is whether to select a kid to an association team you know will be going to a private school. I've dealt with this in hockey and fastpitch. ( many lengthy discussions )
My opinion is 'yes' take them if they qualify for the team. They will make your team stronger, and if they go to a private school will make your competition stronger. ( who want to play easy teams )
I'd like to hear what others have to say about this...
Just an observation....
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
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Hockeydad13
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My Daughter goes to a private school and we were told by our association that we wern't welcome there. It hurt my daughter who didn't get a chance to play with her friends and it hurt the association because I bad mouth them every chance I get. Contrary to popular belief the associations are not ment to just be feeder programs for the high school teams, they get money from our towns recreation department, pull tabs sold in the area, there begging to have a new arena built and they don't have the support because they tried to only support the atheletes that they felt would go on to play on the high school level...because they take the money from all people they have to be accountable to all people
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ghshockeyfan
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A youth association should try to provide the best development opportunities to the majority of its participants. If it can't accomodate certain players, it should then work to place kids in other surrounding youth associations.
Last edited by ghshockeyfan on Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A local association does not have the right to turn anyone away.
Of course, being placed on the appropriate team, line etc...could be a matter of judgement... therefore, a player may not want to stay in a program that is that narow minded.
But if someone has this problem (being denied the opportunity and/or being discriminated against) they should report it to the District Director (even if nothing can be proven) because a history of that activity will eventually lead to something being done.
Of course, being placed on the appropriate team, line etc...could be a matter of judgement... therefore, a player may not want to stay in a program that is that narow minded.
But if someone has this problem (being denied the opportunity and/or being discriminated against) they should report it to the District Director (even if nothing can be proven) because a history of that activity will eventually lead to something being done.
nothing will be done about it, these associations are little kingdoms and they all depend on the benevolance of there rulers...that is whay St Croix has an awesome arena with support from the communitty and Forest Lake has a dump that only a select few support. I watched Harding area hockey disinigrate because they only were afaraid of "building hill murrays team" as a result they were destroyed by there own ignorance. The bottom line is the people with the money, and influance to keep a program well financed are most likely the ones that will send there kids to a private school. If the area hockey program dumps on them they have no reason to stay in the area or to help them build there new arena's
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twowayplay
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Associations who do this will never be good because it is all about numbers. The more numbers the better the program and the better experience every kid will have because of it. I have experienced this in my associations and have flat out told them it is counter-productive and is wrong. Last time I checked these are KIDS we are talking about. Why would anyone want to deny a kid to play a sport.
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spr air 210
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hockey god,
what was your reason for bringing forest lake arena situation into this thread? for your info forest lake just purchased a 1/2 sheet at the new superrink facilities(cooped with herb brooks foundation), they also have land now approved for a community center.I hope your not claiming kids were turned away from forest lake's program because they go to private schools? The u12a team needed 4 u10 players to field a team, anyone would have been welcomed to stengthen both u12 and u10.unfortunately not enough numbers to field a u14 team so jv is the only option.
REMEMBER KEEP IT POSITIVE, KEEP IT REAL, THESE ARE KIDS,COACHES AND COMMUNITIES WE ARE BASHING
what was your reason for bringing forest lake arena situation into this thread? for your info forest lake just purchased a 1/2 sheet at the new superrink facilities(cooped with herb brooks foundation), they also have land now approved for a community center.I hope your not claiming kids were turned away from forest lake's program because they go to private schools? The u12a team needed 4 u10 players to field a team, anyone would have been welcomed to stengthen both u12 and u10.unfortunately not enough numbers to field a u14 team so jv is the only option.
REMEMBER KEEP IT POSITIVE, KEEP IT REAL, THESE ARE KIDS,COACHES AND COMMUNITIES WE ARE BASHING
Forest lake has and does reject skaters based on where they will go to school, take a poll of kids in the program, you won't have any that will say there going to private schools...with the exception of one who is going to hill murray BECAUSE of the forest lake hockey program. yes they have the land aquired for a community center but there financing is suspect and they have yet to win over the support that they need to build the thing. if you want to drag out the dirty laundry of forest lakes program this goes way back to when I was kid. They have always seen there mission as to build teams for the high school not as it should be, to serve the youths of the community. and this isn't just in hockey it goes all the way down to the 1st grade level in most sports...and don't take it so personal, it's commen in alot of small town programs It comes from not having any other options for many years. Just now people have options and we are being punished for taking advantage of whats available to us
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ghshockeyfan
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In my humble opinion, a youth association serves a dual purpose. One, and foremost, to give all the youth a place to play hockey. Two, to work with the HS coaches to develop players for likely participation at some point in the HS program. This doesn't mean that a youth program needs to discriminate against kids that will be going to other HS's. It also doesn't mean that a HS/Youth program shouldn't work closely. To say the two should be entirely independent though is not logical. They need to work together to provide (or find) opportunities for all the kids that live in their community. This may be finding outside-the-community opportunities for some players that don't fit with what is best for the vast majority. We've seen this at times when a small community choosees not to offer an A team but has A level players, etc. In the case of a decision between a JV that can serve the majority of the participants best in a community & a U14, that is tough as it may leave some private/open enrollment kids that aren't in grades 7-12 of the HS without a place to paly in the community. Then, the youth assn. needs to help place those kids in surrounding community youth programs or they need to look at their hockey options at their private/open enrollment HS.
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ghshockeyfan
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This is true.
I also think that at times there are vicious cycles too. I've seen youth assn's choose not to offer A teams and then regularly send their kids away to surrounding A teams and then the liklihood of ever building an A team may never come to frution as kids are inclined that much more to leave come HS to play with surrounding community kids that htey had been playing with outside their community. A true co-op top-to-bottom at a youth level (instead of just sending a couple kids away each year) may be best. BUT - I do think it's important for players to seek out what's best for their development personally too. A level players need A level competition. Dominating a lower level for a year may be OK, but multiple years isn't best. I think that's common knowledge.
There is also a balancing act between doing what's best for you as a player and the community on the whole. What can be hard is if kids/families have to make tough choices. We fault a lot of kids/families for seeking out the best opportunities (in their opinion) in OE/private schools. We hope that the spirit of these choices is education and complete package, but I think we all know that a piece of that consideration is athletics and what they mean in a child's life. Sometimes, the athletics is what keeps the rest on track for a kid. I think we all have to keep that in mind sometimes. I will say that I likely wouldn't have made it through HS or college without hockey to keep me working hard in school and thank goodness it did!
This all aside, there is one more consideration in the U14/JV choice that FL had to make. They had to consider what would happen to the kids that would have been too old for U14 had they offered that instead and no JV. Now, I think that in the end they knew they would have some that wouldn't have a place to play. Either it was going to be those older JV players or the younger OE/private players. The question then should be about how many of each are there? My guess is that unfortunately there were less OE/private younger players vs. older JV players? I don't know this, but this is how I would make a decision like this. The problem though is that the perception will be that this was made about doing what's best for the HS vs. the truth usually that it's about doing what's best for the most players. These are never easy decisions, but they are the reason why HS & youth need to work together. NO MATTER WHAT - then the players that don't have a place to play within the community need to be helped by the youth assn. to place them in surrounding youth assn or at OE/private HS team. I had to do this personally as a HS coach in working with my youth this year to place two kids outside my community - and I did this work on their behalf knowing full well that they'd likely never skate for me! Also, a third option, is to play boys in the home area youth assn., although this isn't always that popular for girls any longer.
I also think that at times there are vicious cycles too. I've seen youth assn's choose not to offer A teams and then regularly send their kids away to surrounding A teams and then the liklihood of ever building an A team may never come to frution as kids are inclined that much more to leave come HS to play with surrounding community kids that htey had been playing with outside their community. A true co-op top-to-bottom at a youth level (instead of just sending a couple kids away each year) may be best. BUT - I do think it's important for players to seek out what's best for their development personally too. A level players need A level competition. Dominating a lower level for a year may be OK, but multiple years isn't best. I think that's common knowledge.
There is also a balancing act between doing what's best for you as a player and the community on the whole. What can be hard is if kids/families have to make tough choices. We fault a lot of kids/families for seeking out the best opportunities (in their opinion) in OE/private schools. We hope that the spirit of these choices is education and complete package, but I think we all know that a piece of that consideration is athletics and what they mean in a child's life. Sometimes, the athletics is what keeps the rest on track for a kid. I think we all have to keep that in mind sometimes. I will say that I likely wouldn't have made it through HS or college without hockey to keep me working hard in school and thank goodness it did!
This all aside, there is one more consideration in the U14/JV choice that FL had to make. They had to consider what would happen to the kids that would have been too old for U14 had they offered that instead and no JV. Now, I think that in the end they knew they would have some that wouldn't have a place to play. Either it was going to be those older JV players or the younger OE/private players. The question then should be about how many of each are there? My guess is that unfortunately there were less OE/private younger players vs. older JV players? I don't know this, but this is how I would make a decision like this. The problem though is that the perception will be that this was made about doing what's best for the HS vs. the truth usually that it's about doing what's best for the most players. These are never easy decisions, but they are the reason why HS & youth need to work together. NO MATTER WHAT - then the players that don't have a place to play within the community need to be helped by the youth assn. to place them in surrounding youth assn or at OE/private HS team. I had to do this personally as a HS coach in working with my youth this year to place two kids outside my community - and I did this work on their behalf knowing full well that they'd likely never skate for me! Also, a third option, is to play boys in the home area youth assn., although this isn't always that popular for girls any longer.
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spr air 210
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hockeygod
I really think you're off base with your finger pointing with regards to forest lake hockey, Shane Krey in previous posts, and the forest lake arena. This is a forum and your entitled to your OPINION but what you're saying isn't factual. The Forest Lake "A" bantams have 1 Hill Murray player
on it this year and had 2 last year. The last time any Hill Murray kids played on the U12a team 4 years ago (probably your daughter and another from north branch), they were welcomed like everyone else.
who knows the way you bashed SHANE over tryouts on your previous post
you may need Forest Lake again and i'm sure they would gladley welcome you back as always(like when you needed to go back to sw jr high for a semester)
I really think you're off base with your finger pointing with regards to forest lake hockey, Shane Krey in previous posts, and the forest lake arena. This is a forum and your entitled to your OPINION but what you're saying isn't factual. The Forest Lake "A" bantams have 1 Hill Murray player
on it this year and had 2 last year. The last time any Hill Murray kids played on the U12a team 4 years ago (probably your daughter and another from north branch), they were welcomed like everyone else.
who knows the way you bashed SHANE over tryouts on your previous post
you may need Forest Lake again and i'm sure they would gladley welcome you back as always(like when you needed to go back to sw jr high for a semester)
who's doing the bashing here, I have facts to back up my acusastaions. I have played Hockey at every level except Professional, I have coached over 50 youth teams in many different sports, if you look at the thread that goes through every single one of my postings is I want things done fairly and evenly for each and every kid. If that is not happening and I stand alone in pointing it out then I will stand alone. It's the people who feel they have a right to a spot in any program or on any team that will destroy the team concept. As for Bashing Shane Krey, I Bashed his program and not Shane himself. His program is disorginized, he has trouble comunicating with the kids as well as the parents and he breaks the rules. The kids don't respect him as well as some of the parents. He's circled the wagons and made himeslf unaccessable to people and his program suffers and will continue to suffer for it
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Wildwillwinthecup
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- Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:27 pm
I believe that the majority of associations don't work that way and if by rare chance you do live in one you should just don't take it personal and leave. I've been associated with summer hockey and every spring and fall local teams were formed and my daughter wasn't asked to play because of a certain coach didn't like me from our High School days. So we played somewhere else and it was the best decision we ever made. She got the opportunity to play with elite players and made alot of new hockey friends.
As far as coaches are concerned they were chosen an earned the right to coach and pick any way they want. I also feel if you were to get 100 coaches in a room you would get a lot of different opinions of how to coach hockey and pick teams.
Remember it's our daughters and we will always feel they deserve better but having coached for 15 years there are girls that can be coached easier than others and sometimes you pick a girl who can learn a system better rather than just on talent alone. Coaching girls is not the same as coaching boys and some girls are very different on the ice than they are off of it. I've also heard alot of dad's say my daughter is soooo good and the coach is crazy for not putting her on the first line and I watch her and think she is where she should be playing.
Again let the coaches coach and if you don't like it. Lifes tough sometimes.
As far as coaches are concerned they were chosen an earned the right to coach and pick any way they want. I also feel if you were to get 100 coaches in a room you would get a lot of different opinions of how to coach hockey and pick teams.
Remember it's our daughters and we will always feel they deserve better but having coached for 15 years there are girls that can be coached easier than others and sometimes you pick a girl who can learn a system better rather than just on talent alone. Coaching girls is not the same as coaching boys and some girls are very different on the ice than they are off of it. I've also heard alot of dad's say my daughter is soooo good and the coach is crazy for not putting her on the first line and I watch her and think she is where she should be playing.
Again let the coaches coach and if you don't like it. Lifes tough sometimes.
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hockeyrube7
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Wildwillwinthecup
Right on Wild man, this forum is not intended for the bashing of anything. Keep it positive, please.