Conference Play

[HShockeywatcher]

Some conferences teams play each other twice, others they don't. What are the implications of this?

Could Cloquet not play a full conference schedule but go undefeated and have Hermantown play more and get more points and win the conference?

If a team is in a conference are they required to play all teams, all teams twice and all that?

A Lake Conference team has 20 games that are conference games; they all play each other twice. Classic Lake teams also play each other twice BUT there are only 5 members in the conference so that's 17 non-conference games as opposed to 5.

[State Champ 97]

Some conferences teams play each other twice, others they don't. What are the implications of this?

Could Cloquet not play a full conference schedule but go undefeated and have Hermantown play more and get more points and win the conference?

If a team is in a conference are they required to play all teams, all teams twice and all that?

A Lake Conference team has 20 games that are conference games; they all play each other twice. Classic Lake teams also play each other twice BUT there are only 5 members in the conference so that's 17 non-conference games as opposed to 5.

I think each conference has rules regarding these issues that have been agreed upon by the member schools. At least from what I can tell there doesn't seem to be much for a uniform set of rules regarding conferences.

[Irishmans Shanty]

Teams within the same conference sometimes don't even play each other once (Mariucci).

[State Champ 97]

Teams within the same conference sometimes don't even play each other once (Mariucci).

Northwest is like that too.

[RLStars]

Some conferences teams play each other twice, others they don't. What are the implications of this?

Could Cloquet not play a full conference schedule but go undefeated and have Hermantown play more and get more points and win the conference?

If a team is in a conference are they required to play all teams, all teams twice and all that?

A Lake Conference team has 20 games that are conference games; they all play each other twice. Classic Lake teams also play each other twice BUT there are only 5 members in the conference so that's 17 non-conference games as opposed to 5.

I think each conference has rules regarding these issues that have been agreed upon by the member schools. At least from what I can tell there doesn't seem to be much for a uniform set of rules regarding conferences.

Central Lakes Conference rules:

For CLC competition, if you are scheduled to play only one time - 2 pts,
if you are scheduled to play twice - 1 pt each. Any game canceled - 0 pts.

This a good way of not forcing strong teams to play weaker teams twice and instead, frees up a few games for more competative non- conference or section games while letting the weaker teams schedule a few non-conference games with teams they can compete with.

I would think that Roseville and CDH would rather not play Mounds View twice in the SEC, and maybe they don't . The same would go for Eastview, Eagan and Eden Prairie not having to play Bloomington Kennedy twice in the Lake Conference.

[big_thurst]

Teams within the same conference sometimes don't even play each other once (Mariucci).

Northwest is like that too.

What schools in the NWSC don't play everyone twice?

[State Champ 97]

Teams within the same conference sometimes don't even play each other once (Mariucci).

Northwest is like that too.

What schools in the NWSC don't play everyone twice?

Not the NWSC. The Northwest Conference. It is a very small 4 team conference that has the also rans of section 8a. It is Lake of the Woods, Bagley-Fosston, Red Lake Falls, and Kittson Central.

[Govs93]

Northwest is like that too.

What schools in the NWSC don't play everyone twice?

Not the NWSC. The Northwest Conference. It is a very small 4 team conference that has the also rans of section 8a. It is Lake of the Woods, Bagley-Fosston, Red Lake Falls, and Kittson Central.

If they're not playing each other, what's the point of the conference? Too much red tape to shut 'er down or what?

[State Champ 97]

What schools in the NWSC don't play everyone twice?

Not the NWSC. The Northwest Conference. It is a very small 4 team conference that has the also rans of section 8a. It is Lake of the Woods, Bagley-Fosston, Red Lake Falls, and Kittson Central.

If they're not playing each other, what's the point of the conference? Too much red tape to shut 'er down or what?

No idea. I think it is only one team that won't play another. The rest play each other at least once.

[HShockeywatcher]

That's my point, what's the point of the conference if they don't play each other?

Also, not to totally change this to something already talked about a lot, but the Missota is a prime example. Holy Angels plays everyone now. Well, let's assume they stay good enough to beat everyone they play next year. Let's say they play everyone but two teams twice next year and they play the bottom two teams only once. If they win all the games they play, there is no scenario where they won't have enough points to still get the title. So, why don't they do that?

I was looking at the Lake Superior Conference. The teams there it seems only play each other once. I'm guessing Cloquet doesn't want to play Ashland twice, but aside from Cloquet, it would probably be nice to play everyone twice. And it shouldn't matter what you want. Like someone said, what's the point of being in the conference if there aren't rules followed the same for all of them?

[Govs93]

If they win all the games they play, there is no scenario where they won't have enough points to still get the title.

Maybe I'm not following, but if a team wins all the games they play, what scenario would present itself in which a team could possibly lose a conference? I'm not sure I understood what you were getting at.

In terms of a team playing certain teams twice and other teams once, I don't hink it's unheard of in sports. Look at the Big Ten in football... you don't play 10 conference games in a season, so 3 teams are left off of your schedule each year. It's a luck of the draw from year-to-year, but over the course of 3 years (or whatever it is) it balances itself out.

I think the bigger problem is that conferences are being decimated because of consolidation. Look at the St. Paul, Minneapolis, and evidently Northwest (even the Classic Lake, although I don't believe they're at 5 teams because of consolidation). 2, 2, and 4 teams respectively. At that point, it's really time to just disband the conferences for hockey and either attempt to gain entry into another, or just play an independant schedule (I believe Johnson actually did try to move to the Tri-Metro for hockey but were not accepted).

[RLStars]

Also, not to totally change this to something already talked about a lot, but the Missota is a prime example. Holy Angels plays everyone now. Well, let's assume they stay good enough to beat everyone they play next year. Let's say they play everyone but two teams twice next year and they play the bottom two teams only once. If they win all the games they play, there is no scenario where they won't have enough points to still get the title. So, why don't they do that?

Not sure why this is confusing you . If a conference has 11 teams and you play them twice (1 point per game), you end up with 20 points. If they play a team only once, that game is worth two points. So if AHA plays 8 teams twice and wins all games, they get 16 points. They play two teams once each and win, they get 4 more points for a total of 20.

[gomnhky]

I think this is a very interesting topic and has a lot of different angles for discussion. It is one of the reasons I have always thought the NWSC conference is one of the toughest conferences to play in (not saying they are the best - but one of the toughest) for the simple reason that there are 10 teams in the conference and everyone plays each other twice (20 games). And sometimes regardless of the difference in talent level, the familiarity and on-ice rivalries that develop, can make every game competitive and any team capable of beating another on any given night. It also makes it more challenging for many of the same teams because they are also in the same section and are now playing someone for the third time - we all know how challenging it can be be to beat a team three times regardless of how it should look on paper. I think the teams that play in this conference are more "battle" tested and may explain the recent success of teams from this conference in the state tournament.

But it also raises an issue regarding scheduling disparity. Teams in the larger conferences that play each other twice, such as the NWSC playing 20 games, have few remaining games available for non-conference play. We all know that it is to any team's advantage to play against the better, more high profile, competition. Teams like Duluth East, who are always credited for their strength of schedule, and not to take anything away from them for playing these teams, it is a big advantage for those players to play against those teams on a regular basis and being able to basically control their level of competition to a much greater extent than those in other conferences. The same can also be said for those in the smaller conferences that don't play each other more than once and have a greater flexibility in scheduling their non-conference games against better competition. I would think this bodes well for any of those teams that have this greater flexibility and use it to their advantage and will be better served when it counts the most.

I'm not sure there is a needed change in the conference scheduling, but can someone explain to me why some of the conferences don't play each other twice?

[State Champ 97]

One or both of the teams think the game will be an ugly, lopsided game.

[PASTRAPIDSFAN]

Should play each team at least once

[State Champ 97]

Should play each team at least once

Agreed, but it isn't happening.

[HShockeywatcher]

Wow, ask a question, don't put someone down.

AHA has for the past while wanted to just play each team once (from what I've read) and that proposal has been turned down. So, what I'm saying is them just being like "screw it, we're just not going to play the worst two teams and pick up a couple more top games." So they wouldn't be getting the extra points, they would just end up with 16 points. In the last 4 years that I can remember the 2nd place team hasn't gone undefeated outside of Holy Angels, so with the two losses to Holy Angels a team could only get 16 points but if they lost even one game, they'd come in second. But thanks for asking instead of accusing me of being wrong.

I'm curious if anyone out there knows the ins and outs of conference play and what's required.

Thanks