Team Minnesota...Minnesota vs. Michigan series

[High Flyer]

Wingsfan13-

Lets stick to the post here as it about the Minnesota vs. Michigan series and my comments deal with reason why our MN 93 kids got hammered by Michigan. It's obviously too everyone is that the organizers of this event failed to get the top MN players to attend, just look at the scores.

My list of the top 34 93 players is pointless, that is if the organizer of the event wants to contact me for next year.

Regarding my opinon on Oswald, read my post agian, I said " make most of our Bantam A teams last year" and I didn't say any, so lets not try to twist my words.

Regarding spell check, has nothing to do with the post and yes, I'm not using it, just typing in real quickly.

Just curious Wingsfan13, are you a parent of a 93 player who went to this event and/or do you by chance happen to be one of the organizers or friends of the organizer?????

Sorry I have to interject. High Flyer perhaps you can divulge your list of the top 34 kids in Minnesota. I would love to know who is on it and who put it together. Second I think Oswald is an ok player but to say he would make any Bantam A team in the state is a little overboard. Last but not least turn on spell check.

[jancze5]

High Flyer..you don't know jack about how the Detroit AAA teams recruit and go through their process. The 93 LC team has 6 kids this year that aren't DETROIT bred...Honeybaked and LC bring in 11 and 12 year olds in the PW years from all over the place and board them with host families like they're junior players or something. My son is currently playing on a summer team with a kid from Montreal (94) that has played the last 2 years with LC and is living away from his family...at 13....if you've never played outside of Minnesota and have been strictly community based hockey you're whole life...please don't comment on the Tier 1 AAA community that you know nothing about, clearly.

The Minnesota 93/94's got handed by the 93 LC's...so what, the 93 LC's will be a top-5 Bantam Major team in the country this year...playing a spring scrimmage against kids wearing a jersey that says Minnesota..who cares at 13 and 14 years old...these are development years that should be fun to play still...not the be all and end all...if you're a parent..get a clue and RELAX buddy, go grab a Canadian (Molson) and watch Pronger sitting in the owners box in game 4..that's the only hockey that really counts right now!

[High Flyer]

Question for the organizer:

1) In you brochure you state that your primary goal of Team Minnesota Hockey Club is to provide the "elite" player with develpement. I'm just curious, how did just 4 games help with a players developement?

2) Also in your brochure, claim that thier will be a proper venue for evaluation/exposure by scouts. If you are a parent of a 93 or 94 players and you went to this event, let me tell you that no scout is interested in your kid because they are too young!!!!

3) Also in your brochure you state that you will "only accept the top players in Minnesota for this event, so the competitive environment will be excellent". At the 93/94 do you think you can back up this cliam based on this years results?

Lastly for all the 93/94 parents who are so desperate to get thier kids discovered, you should be focusing training in the off season. If the 34 familes would of each took the $800 they spent for this event and pulled thier efforts together, you could of hired a top notch coach and aproximatly 75 hours of practice ice this summer to help your son "develope" into a better player.

[High Flyer]

Jancze5

Since you are so knwoledgeable, please educate us as to who the six kids from LC that are not Det. bread?

You should not assume I know nothing about the Tier 1 AAA community and that I've never played outside of Minnesota and that I hav been strictly community based hockey my entire life, as that is anything but the case.

[quote="jancze5"]High Flyer..you don't know jack about how the Detroit AAA teams recruit and go through their process. The 93 LC team has 6 kids this year that aren't DETROIT bred...Honeybaked and LC bring in 11 and 12 year olds in the PW years from all over the place and board them with host families like they're junior players or something. My son is currently playing on a summer team with a kid from Montreal (94) that has played the last 2 years with LC and is living away from his family...at 13....if you've never played outside of Minnesota and have been strictly community based hockey you're whole life...please don't comment on the Tier 1 AAA community that you know nothing about, clearly.

You are correct in saying that 13 to 14 year old kids should be focusing on developement and having fun.

[ozone1]

Wow, this whole thread is getting ridiculous. Let see these are 93's & 94's, what is that 7th & 8th graders ? I'm guessing you had hundreds of college and pro scouts there watching this event. Nice job to Michigan for winning against 93 / 94's this year. Lets see what happens in the years to come. By the time these MN kids are Jr. & Sr's they will more than likely do the same thing the 89's did this year. Well said earlier "it's not a sprint it's a marathon."

[High Flyer]

Ozone1-

Yea, I'm sure you are correct in predicting the future three years down the road, as I'm sure the Michigans top 34 players are just going to stop developing while our Minnesota 30-68 best kids are just going to leap frog past them, so when they play again three years from now, MN will totally dominate the Mich team by out shooting them 63-17.

Hey, I'm pretty good about perdicticting the future too and I just looked in my crystal ball to see that Mich top 34 players once agian, beats up our third and fourth group of 93 birth year kids just like they did this year. If you have the same 93 talent pool for both Mich and MN, you will have the same results in 2008, 2009 and 2010.

[ozone1]

Your right my High friend.... however, my crystal ball says your still probably going to be high in 3 years and your Michigan bunch will all be on college scholarships so they won't be able to field a team.

[High Flyer]

ozone1-

It's great to debate with knowlegeable people like your self and when they have no facts to support thier opion, they result to name calling. Why do I feel like I'm debating with my 6 yr.old?

ozone1, lets not bore the readers of this thread with your dribble, so try to stick to the thread and posts dealing with the poor performance of the MN 93 group this year, why that was and what can MN do next year so it's not more of the same. The solution isn't lets sit back a let the MN kids mature over the next year.

MN did not get thier top 34 kids at the 93 level to attend this event this year and if they had, they would have been very competitive!!!!!

The real truth of the matter it is an extreme dis-service by this organization to be makeing the type of claims they are making and not be able to support them.

[ozone1]

High, Don't get so worked up my friend... You answered your own concern in saying if MN would have gotten the current top 34 - 93's it would have been competitive. I also believe that, however, it just didn't happen. So, we are not that far behind if our best would have gone. Nobody sit's back in Minnesota when it comes to hockey and you should know that. The kids that are 93's and 94's will keep developing the way all past MN players have developed and with proper off-ice conditioning programs will be fine.
I know the organizers pretty well and they are good people and are very connected, they will be the first to tell you that they don't know the top 93's but are committed to getting it right in the years to come. The claims they made have been accurate at the 89 level for the past 3 years. Cut these guys some slack and believe me they will get it right before recruiting happens

[breakout]

Maybe high flyer should offer his assistance of getting the players that might have been missed. I am sure he could find the organizer's contact info..................Step Up Me Boy!

Must be high flyer's first kid.............a bit worked up????

[GR3343]

Wow, this whole thread is getting ridiculous. Let see these are 93's & 94's, what is that 7th & 8th graders ? I'm guessing you had hundreds of college and pro scouts there watching this event. Nice job to Michigan for winning against 93 / 94's this year. Lets see what happens in the years to come. By the time these MN kids are Jr. & Sr's they will more than likely do the same thing the 89's did this year. Well said earlier "it's not a sprint it's a marathon."

Wasn't there a self imposed collegiate ban on scouting this tournament anyways?

[High Flyer]

breakout-

I would not be affiliated with any organization like this one or others who make promises of develeopement and does not provide the support.

I would not be affiliated with any organization like this one or others who make promises of exposure to scouts for 13 & 14 year players, when the truth is the scouts are not really interested in them. I have no problem with the exposure claim at 15, 16 & 17.

It would be great to be affiliated with an organization who during the offseason (May-Sept) has the top 34 players train together and compete together in 3-4 highly scouted events and I'm not sure if the MN & Mich series would end up being one of the 3-4 events selected, as there are others which provide more exposer opportunites.

I like the concept of the MN & Mich series, especial with the home & home agreement alternating every other year. It would be great if they could expand the number of teams in this event to included some of the other areas of the US that also has a lot of hockey talent, say an East Coast team and maybe one more for a total of 8 teams per level. I think with this type of venue the organizer would get more scouts to attend.

[High Flyer]

Heres an idea, can you say Super Expouser Tournament at the Super Rink? It is one of the premier ice venues to host such an event in the Summer.

[Just_Hockey]

Heard Oswald did not go to the tourney because he had a previous commitment. So I do not think he was there.

Also , regarding the team he played for in Omaha , they qualified for Nationals by winning the Central Districts playoffs- played CSDHL Bantam Majors, went to Nationals and went all the way through to the semi's - shared 3rd in NY with #1 rated team in nation - From Michigan named ..Canton Crush '92 majors. Top three players at Nationals In NY in relation to points, were Oswald teammates.

To say the kid did not or does not belong on the squad or would not make the top Bantam "A" teams in MN as a minor playing Bantam Major or that the team he played on was not any good - when they went 49-19-3 on the National Stage is just not accurate nor is it relevant.

Wings_fan - do you know the kid ?[/u]

[Wingsfan13]

I have seen him play, what are you his press agent? He is as I said a good player, not great not terrible just good. I stand by my assessment that he would not nor could not make "any" Minnesota bantam A team. Your comments about Omaha's record opens up the subject of Minnesota teams not participating in nationals. This is kind of a sore subject with many as I for one would contend that at the Tier 2 level the champion would come from Minnesota on a regular basis. But I digress.
I would also answer the "High" guy, I do not have anything to do with the Minnesota team that went to Michigan. But I am guessing you have a kid that didn't get picked.

[High Flyer]

Wingsfan13 is correct in saying that a Minnesota team would annually contend fot the Tier II championship.

Hey, local hockey associations in MN, want your teams to eligible for Tier II championships? Just start organizing your teams by birth year (USA Hockey Jan. 1st cut off) and guess what, you don't even need MAHA approval to do this and you could start using this format this year. Wingsfan13, start a movement with in your association as it is run locally and this is a local decission, so if this is a score subject with you and others, change it.

Yes I have a kid at the 93 level, no he did not apply and no one contacted him to particapate and had they, he would of declined. He had 90 pts. in 75 games last year as a first year Bantam "A". He is one of MN top 15 players and he looks forward to next years select 15 to prove it on the ice.

[jackstraw]

Just_Hockey, let me clarify what I meant about the team the Omaha kid played on. Let's leave Nick out of it, he is a super kid who plays hockey well. Seeing as this IS a Mn youth hockey forum, I will pimp Mn a little. Your facts about the Omaha tier II team are just that, facts. They obviously did very well at the USA Hockey Bantam Major Tier II level. Having seen them play, my deduction would then be that Mn youth hockey is doing VERY well as the #3 team in the nation had quite a struggle with one of Mn hockey's B teams, Eden Prairie. I can also see how they had some of the leading scorer's in the tournament, 2 of their forward's were very good, one of them (Suter) was exceptional. I didn't see a 3rd player that I felt was that good, but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. To tie this in with the thread, I just don't see where a kid off that team would have fit into a Team Minnesota concept. The Suter kid I spoke of is a '92 and the team we are talking about was a '93 team. The #3 team for USA Hockey Major Bantam Tier II would have been a very nice fit in Mn Hockey's District 4 A bantam's. They would have had a hard time knocking off Faribault, but would have given a nice run to 2nd place. Not too strong as far as Mn Hockey is concerned. I hope I didn't ruffle your feather's too much, but seeing as your trolling a Mn Youth Hockey website, you probably get what I am saying.

[Just_Hockey]

Wingsfan13, and Jackstraw

I also agree with all of you that MN should get a team involved in the USA Hockey TierII level play at Peewees, through Midget. You should do a before and after team like the Tier 1 guys do - it might work. It's a shame the MN cannot participate.

Jackstraw - I do not want to be Confrontational however let's just say that Many midwest NON MN teams have been playing District 4 teams for many years via tourney's etc.. and generally done very well if not dominated them - even with the age change differences. New Prague and Red Wing and at times Faribault in my opinion have been the strongest but it's highly dependant on the year.

Now as long as you acknowledge most of the 93's from outside of MN that played Bantam A MN teams faced a fair number of 91's due to MN and USA hockey age cut off differences, then to say and compare Midwest Bantam A to Minnesota Bantam A - you have to take into account the age differences. So consider players that are the exact same birthyear and then tell me how kid's stack up against one another - this is more relevant until they turn 18 or higher.

So before you make a judgement about a player or a teams ability Please give consideration to their age relative to the age of thier competition.

As for the MN Team this year , I heard that Oswald was asked to play and did not apply - he is going to Shattuck and from what I know will be taking up residence there soon. I have also been told the kid has played for Northern MN summer AAA teams and had four or five Duluth area kid's playing on his Dad's AAA summer team last year along with a Owatonna kid.

So back to the post original intent - some of the 93's that probably should have been on the squad but were off playing AAA in Prospects, and other tourney's Nike Bauer etc..

- Seth Ambroz - NP
- Craig Duininick - SC
- Max BirkinBine - WBL
- James Wagonoer - Ow
to name a few -

Don't worry next years 93's will do much better -

[jackstraw]

Two sides to every story and your's is very valid, good response. Some other '93's to add to that list, Tanner Jordan, kid with last name Labate?, Austin Head, Dillon Stolt, John McDonald (moving to Champlin Park) and Zach Adams.

[hockey34721]

the kid from owatonna that played on oswald's dad aaa team was james wagoner

[buckeyehockey17]

the reason why minnesota got smoked all of their games was because the michigan teams have been playing together since squirts and this was just a bunch of random kids thrown together

[High Flyer]

Not true, as the Michigan players have not been playing together since they were squirts. Get your facts straight!!!!

If MN would of thrown together a random bunch of there top players, MN would not have gotton smoked. This is why they got smoked!

the reason why minnesota got smoked all of their games was because the michigan teams have been playing together since squirts and this was just a bunch of random kids thrown together

[breakout]

Not true, as the Michigan players have not been playing together since they were squirts. Get your facts straight!!!!

If MN would of thrown together a random bunch of there top players, MN would not have gotton smoked. This is why they got smoked!

the reason why minnesota got smoked all of their games was because the michigan teams have been playing together since squirts and this was just a bunch of random kids thrown together

I hope you took your blood pressure medicine before all of your exchanges.

I would suggest easing up on the tournament director. I am sure every effort was put toward getting the best possible kids. For whatever reason it didn't work out. If mistakes were made I am sure they will have learned from them.

Hope you get over it.

[PlayersFirst]

High Flyer - yes the 1993 born players got dominated. Period. Again, this event was supposed to be a 1988, 1989, 1990 and 1991 event, but Team Michigan asked Team Minnesota to bring a couple of 1992 and 1993 teams.

Obviously the guys organizing the event were unsuccessful in convincing many of the top 1993's to join them in Michigan. Too bad, as it was a great experience. I don't believe that their inability to attract the top 1993 players had anything to do with the viability of the series, as the guys who run the event are some of the most recognized and respected coaches in Minnesota youth/high school hockey.

You do need to remember that the organizers train and coach the older kids (1988, 1989, 1990's) and had little experience with knowing who the top 1993 are. By the way, as stated earlier, the 1989, 1990, 1991 teams absolutely dominated the Team Michigan older players. So, the main portion of the event was wildly successful. The 1993's simply had other events on the calendar that conflicted with the series dates.

It is unfortunate that your vision regarding this event is so narrow, as the only teams to get clobbered were the 1993 group. I am sure that this event will correct the 1993 problems and have a great list of players for the Minnesota vs. Michigan Series in Minneapolis in 2008. This is a very nice event and they will learn from their mistakes and make a great showing in 2008.

Losing is not always a bad thing and the reaction from the majority of the 1993 players was mainly positive that they had such a great experience.

[hockey34721]

high flyer

how do you know if the kids haven't been playing together since squirts because as you have stated you weren't even there.