HShockeywatcher wrote:I think it's hilarious those who think St Thomas should opt give basically one reason, and if someone says something back that makes sense they are just called names with no real backing for why.
There isnt really one reason they should, there are multiple that make sense. How about the fact that there have been 4 straight years of state tournament appearances. The second coudl be that the enrollment there is close to the target for AA anyways and with a slight shift or more enrollment for one class they would have to be anyways. Third, the fact that they not only take kids from the surrounding area but also out of towners are being enrolled (your welcome for being PC...) in the private school. I am not positive but I could be wrong in that Schroeder was from Elk River or a norther suburb nowhere near Mendota Heights and was still present for a couple years.
scoreboard33 wrote:You are right, Warroad should opt up.
Not sure why you would think this. I am not even close to a fan of theirs in fact I have a certain dislike that wont ever change towards them but even I can see that they dont belong in AA. They have had up years but will have some down years as the youth teams are not as top notch. Eventually the well will start to dwindle down and they will have some heavy competition, in fact it could be this year with an added team in Bemidji. EGF and PR are good teams as well that are capable of knocking off a bigger team...
They will never opt up. No need to they enjoy the success they have at the A level. When you get to state there are competitive teams in both A and AA, this way it just assures them of at least getting to state and thats what they want to do every year is get there and win state, so be it. If they opt up they may not get there every year because its overall a deeper group of teams.
B) I wasn't suggesting either should opt up necessarily. The point about Marshall is that they are the same story as St Thomas. No rink on campus=bad team. You build a rink=you get a good team. STA/DM 05-07: DM; 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, STA; 4th, 1st, 3rd. Head to head: DM 2 - STA 1
No, breck shouldn't opt up. What's all the hype about STA and not DM?
C) If there are enough good teams that are small, how is playing against other good small teams punishing them? Moorhead and Roseau would still play two games during the season. Teams that opt often do well in the AA tourney. Now we only get to see 6 great teams play a year (or that many that people will give credit to). Not opting will let us see maybe 12 at state a year. Both Moorhead and Roseau at state. Say this were in play this year, Roseau kills Moorhead both games during the season, then both win state. Roseau would be the real champ and we'd all know it.
E) We'll agree to disagree. Yes, many are there for hockey, just as much as any community. Many are there because there dad went there and other family wants. My point is that in the long run if you want to be a good player, where are you going to develop more; a Class A St Thomas or a Class AA St Thomas? The ladder, not the former, hands down.
F) Probably true.
scoreboard33 wrote:You are right, Warroad should opt up.
Not sure why you would think this. I am not even close to a fan of theirs in fact I have a certain dislike that wont ever change towards them but even I can see that they dont belong in AA. They have had up years but will have some down years as the youth teams are not as top notch. Eventually the well will start to dwindle down and they will have some heavy competition, in fact it could be this year with an added team in Bemidji. EGF and PR are good teams as well that are capable of knocking off a bigger team...
They will alway shave up and down years, but they usuallly have a few top notch players, and they are consistently coming to St. Paul. They could compete with bigger teams. This year they are nothing special, but they will probably start an upswing pretty soon and them opting up would and ending up in Roseau's section would step the rivalry up even more and be great for both towns. Between 2001 and 2005 Roseau did not reach the state tournament. In the Warroad history I could find, 03-07, they have only missed the state tournament once and won one title.
90% of the posters on the board hate St Thomas and the community. The thing above all else I don't get is why you put so much time and effort into saying they should do something that would, in your eyes, legitimize their program?
HShockeywatcher wrote:90% of the posters on the board hate St Thomas and the community. The thing above all else I don't get is why you put so much time and effort into saying they should do something that would, in your eyes, legitimize their program?
B) i was just saying arguing wins over one team that should opt up doesn't mean the other should opt up.
C) People will always view AA as the real state championship, no matter how many great teams are in A. Even if the winner AA got hammered by the winner A twice. The A winner may, if they are lucky, be viewed as the winner of a controversial split decision.
E) I was not making a point about development, I was talking about winning a state championship.
Put it this way. They have 800 people at their school. How many girls go to their school? 0. If you double 800 you have 1600 which puts them in a big populated school. I understand they don't have girls at their school but if they did they would for sure be with the big schools.
scoreboard33 wrote:You are right, Warroad should opt up.
Not sure why you would think this. I am not even close to a fan of theirs in fact I have a certain dislike that wont ever change towards them but even I can see that they dont belong in AA. They have had up years but will have some down years as the youth teams are not as top notch. Eventually the well will start to dwindle down and they will have some heavy competition, in fact it could be this year with an added team in Bemidji. EGF and PR are good teams as well that are capable of knocking off a bigger team...
They will alway shave up and down years, but they usuallly have a few top notch players, and they are consistently coming to St. Paul. They could compete with bigger teams. This year they are nothing special, but they will probably start an upswing pretty soon and them opting up would and ending up in Roseau's section would step the rivalry up even more and be great for both towns. Between 2001 and 2005 Roseau did not reach the state tournament. In the Warroad history I could find, 03-07, they have only missed the state tournament once and won one title.
Not sure if you read my post or just made a blind comment about Warroad. I mentioned that PR, EGF and Bemidji are now capable of competing with Warroad due to the "water down" affect. Warroad may still get there but atleast they have a team to compete with in a section... I cant say the same for STA...
B) True.
C) My point is that's unfortunate and says a lot about people's character. That attitude exists in few other sports, except maybe football. It's just unfortunate how hockey players and the community looks at KIDS.
E) My point was more about development. Take a player like Ryan Walters. He could be the future of the program, but with a Class A schedule he can't develop as much as he could with a AA schedule.
On the flip side, like you were saying, there is something to be said about State Tournament experience.
I think it's a good idea to opt up, but I also don't think it's necessary. If they continue to be the top team they are they could try to only schedule AA non-conference teams. They already play top AA teams in Hill Murray, Minnetonka, Cretin, Tartan some years, and the Schwan's Cup crowd. They could get rid of a few non-conference A opponents and add a few AA opponents. But why let your STUDENT athletes have a chance of 3-4 less games in March if you can help it?
St. Thomas skates at the lowest level possible. It would only take an ounce of character to opt up. It won't happen. They, like their fans will continue with thier lame rationalizations.
HShockeywatcher wrote:B) True.
C) My point is that's unfortunate and says a lot about people's character. That attitude exists in few other sports, except maybe football. It's just unfortunate how hockey players and the community looks at KIDS.
E) My point was more about development. Take a player like Ryan Walters. He could be the future of the program, but with a Class A schedule he can't develop as much as he could with a AA schedule.
On the flip side, like you were saying, there is something to be said about State Tournament experience.
I think it's a good idea to opt up, but I also don't think it's necessary. If they continue to be the top team they are they could try to only schedule AA non-conference teams. They already play top AA teams in Hill Murray, Minnetonka, Cretin, Tartan some years, and the Schwan's Cup crowd. They could get rid of a few non-conference A opponents and add a few AA opponents. But why let your STUDENT athletes have a chance of 3-4 less games in March if you can help it?
Not sure if you had a finger spasm on the word STUDENT... it had no relevance to your point. on top of that, how does a player not progress due to a AA section? You can still play your A teams during the season, its the post season it will hinder. This point makes your previous point unvalid as that player should have reached his potential for that year by that time. I am not sure what you are getting at but in all reality none of your points had any validity to them, they just went around a track and came back to the starting point....
newsguy35 wrote: I am not sure what you are getting at but in all reality none of your points had any validity to them, they just went around a track and came back to the starting point....
Wow, if you haven't been reading my posts, then sure, you could be confused. If I hadn't previously stated I was on the fence about this topic, it would be odd to be showing points for both sides. But that's what I've stated. Although it would be nice to see them opt, there are compelling reasons for opting and for not opting.
HShockeywatcher wrote:Wow, if you haven't been reading my posts, then sure, you could be confused. If I hadn't previously stated I was on the fence about this topic, it would be odd to be showing points for both sides. But that's what I've stated. Although it would be nice to see them opt, there are compelling reasons for opting and for not opting.
and the finger spasm was just an accident....
No offense but refuting against you and scoreboard33 is like sitting in a rocking chair, its fun for a while but it gets you nowhere. No matter how much sense you try to put in it just doesnt work. Even if they didnt opt up, is there a team in their section that really could shock them or is it just a free trip up the road to St Paul? Might as well call it an all school field trip every year in A.
No, the finger spasm wasn't an accident. They are high school kids. It's sad they are picked on as much as they are. It happens to them, the Park Rapids kids, and plenty others all the time.
I love how you finally stop commenting on the topic and resort to simply saying our points are null. It's amusing.
This topic is about why a class A team should be opting up and your point is that their section is weak? So, that would strengthen the argument for Warroad and Marshall to opt up, right? Heck, doesn't LF have a free ride there for some time to come?
You have the same exact topics year in and year out, why not take the time, go back and find last years thread on the same thing, read it yourself and call it good?
HShockeywatcher wrote:No, the finger spasm wasn't an accident. They are high school kids. It's sad they are picked on as much as they are. It happens to them, the Park Rapids kids, and plenty others all the time.
I love how you finally stop commenting on the topic and resort to simply saying our points are null. It's amusing.
This topic is about why a class A team should be opting up and your point is that their section is weak? So, that would strengthen the argument for Warroad and Marshall to opt up, right? Heck, doesn't LF have a free ride there for some time to come?
LF may not get to state this year due to a section that has gotten better first off. Second, you again neglected to read my comments about section 8A. DM has a tough Your points have no push behind them. They lack in depth as well, that is why everyone is picking on you and claiming you know nothing. I have expressed my opinion, have back up statements and stats and all you have is that they are kids and being picked on...
Section 6A:
Alex
Wadena/Deer Creek
Fergus Falls
Detriot Lakes LF
Section 7A:
hibbing/Chisholm
Ely
Eveleth Gilbert
Virginia
I-Falls Duluth Marshall
Section 8A:
EGF
PR
Bemidji
TRF
Crookston Warroad
Section 4A:
Totino-Grace
Mahtomedi
Minnehaha Academy
Simley
SSP STA
I would rather go through your section than the others... Also, you guys have a ton more pickens than schools up here in gods country. Thank god there aren't many private schools north of St Cloud where open enrollment would be a huge problem...[/b]
I didn't start this thread, CNT. And if you've been reading my posts, which I know you have, you'd know that I have the same opinion about discussing this. It goes no where and does nothing.
I'm bored and it's amusing to see responses that have no backing. But I'm done. This went no where, most who comment aren't interested in discussing, more just putting others down for no reason. I'm out, have a good night.
HShockeywatcher wrote:90% of the posters on the board hate St Thomas and the community. The thing above all else I don't get is why you put so much time and effort into saying they should do something that would, in your eyes, legitimize their program?
