Tryouts: Outside evaluators ??

[JoltDelivered]

My son has played travelling baseball for the last 4 years. They have always closed the tryouts to parents. No mistrust and I have never heard complaints about the process. (Tryouts are done indoors in March).

Also there is a hockey association right next to ours that closes their tryouts and it works very well for them. I know some families there and they speak highly of the process.

Our hockey tryouts are laughable. Not what happens on the ice but in the stands. I've seen parents making their own lists in notebooks. I've seen small groups discussing other peoples kids. And not to mention rumors travel like wild fire through the parents during this process. Ever heard this at a tryout? "Heard their looking at #45 this year. Not sure what they see there." If I had a nickel...

Really my only point is the tryout process is so stressful on the kids. Some more than others. Most of the kids try so hard only to be disappointed. Parents have the uncanny ability to inject a different kind of stress and pile on. And trust me people kids hear what you talk about with your hockey buddy parents.

[Can't Never Tried]

My son has played travelling baseball for the last 4 years. They have always closed the tryouts to parents. No mistrust and I have never heard complaints about the process. (Tryouts are done indoors in March).

Also there is a hockey association right next to ours that closes their tryouts and it works very well for them. I know some families there and they speak highly of the process.

Our hockey tryouts are laughable. Not what happens on the ice but in the stands. I've seen parents making their own lists in notebooks. I've seen small groups discussing other peoples kids. And not to mention rumors travel like wild fire through the parents during this process. Ever heard this at a tryout? "Heard their looking at #45 this year. Not sure what they see there." If I had a nickel...

Really my only point is the tryout process is so stressful on the kids. Some more than others. Most of the kids try so hard only to be disappointed. Parents have the uncanny ability to inject a different kind of stress and pile on. And trust me people kids hear what you talk about with your hockey buddy parents.

Jolt,
If your hearing this what do you do or say? are you in that group that's speculating? being you hear it so much? and even if you are, what's wrong with that?
So what if someone doesn't have vast yrs of experience coaching or evaluating, if it's chatter amongst parents that's what it is, Big deal!

As far as stress goes I think we may just be a little to worried about the fragile kid here...keep in mind it only gets harder and harder, and the disappointments keep on coming, and the sooner they learn to deal with the stress and strain of high competition the better off they'll be.
oh! yeah...
If it's the parents on their kids... that's a family problem and closing tryouts will not change that situation.

[tomASS]

CNT - I know that in my perfect world it would work just fine

Of course yours and spinorama's points are extremely valid and my closed evaluations idea would not correct a logic chip problem in parents. It would only make it worse......but a guy can dream can't he? And maybe it's just my way of pissing those people off?

I would just like to know from everyone, how many of your parents attended your tryouts when you were a yute?

I believe the tryout process for kids and the pressure it creates is good but what happens all too often is when the kid fails to achieve the level they are shooting for the parents provide excuses rather than life lessons.

[JoltDelivered]

CNT,

I'll give you credit, it's not everyday you hear somebody make the argument that we should take a very stressful time and try to make it more stressful, you know, for the kids development sake. I like it when people go out on a limb. I think many child development experts may disagree however.

If you go back to the orignal post of this whole thread it was about the process itself. I know I branched off and took it down the road of no parents and away from outside evaluators. But I have yet to see a response where somebody has demonstrated that parents make the process better or more efficient.

I understand why you want to be there and I don't think that it differs from most people. However it's clear to me at least, that there is no added value of having parents there. None...

That's my only point.

[tomASS]

However it's clear to me at least, that there is no added value of having parents there. None...

The only thing I can think of is if a kid has separation anxiety or needs money from the parent ATM

[Can't Never Tried]

CNT,

I'll give you credit, it's not everyday you hear somebody make the argument that we should take a very stressful time and try to make it more stressful, you know, for the kids development sake. I like it when people go out on a limb. I think many child development experts may disagree however.

If you go back to the orignal post of this whole thread it was about the process itself. I know I branched off and took it down the road of no parents and away from outside evaluators. But I have yet to see a response where somebody has demonstrated that parents make the process better or more efficient.

I understand why you want to be there and I don't think that it differs from most people. However it's clear to me at least, that there is no added value of having parents there. None...

That's my only point.

So we need to protect the players from their parents adding stress ?

I want to be there because I have a relationship with my player that works, he works hard, does his best and then gets honest feedback from me if requested, is some negative? yep you bet, and some is positive too.
The trick to it is letting them ask for it, if they don't ask for it don't offer it.

I got your point and I see where your coming from, but no matter what you call it, this is sports, entertainment and fun, and I don't want some group of self proclaimed parent coach experts, or assoc. board members telling me I can't watch the tryouts because there's no value to it, I'm not looking for value, I'm watching my son develop...and all that said I've been thru it all anyway and way past youth so it doesn't effect me anyhow.
You never know when the last time they'll put the skates on is and I don't want to miss even one, even now!

Back to outside evaluators, chemistry is one thing you lose with them, at the youngest level squirts..probably doesn't matter, but PW and Bantam I think you can gain some value in that area with someone who's in tune with the area and the players.

[spin-o-rama]

Parental presence or absence at the tryout is not the problem. I'm sure Tom is a great dad with his stay away policy, and CNT is a great dad with his Don Lucia, watching quietly in the corner policy. It can also work the other way. I remember a teammate who wished his dad would never make it to his games and another teammate who wished his dad would just come to 1. Rather than exclude the parents, educate them on being good sports and give them some viewing guidelines for tryouts, practices, and games.

Tom, good reasons. There may be more. That's why it should be an option for parents. Can you see the association tryout list? "if a * is by your name then parents are not to come, if a # is by your name we have approved your need to attend."

[Can't Never Tried]

Parental presence or absence at the tryout is not the problem. I'm sure Tom is a great dad with his stay away policy, and CNT is a great dad with his Don Lucia, watching quietly in the corner policy. It can also work the other way. I remember a teammate who wished his dad would never make it to his games and another teammate who wished his dad would just come to 1. Rather than exclude the parents, educate them on being good sports and give them some viewing guidelines for tryouts, practices, and games.

Tom, good reasons. There may be more. That's why it should be an option for parents. Can you see the association tryout list? "if a * is by your name then parents are not to come, if a # is by your name we have approved your need to attend."

Confession... sometimes I go to the local well for a few instead, those are the days he gets the most praise.

Lucia c'mon

[Blue&Gold]

I've said for years that if you really want to pick the best team, let the kids have the ice for a couple of hours by themselves, and then have them pick the team while not allowing them to pick themselves. You take those ballots and I will "almost" guarantee that you would have the best team out of the group.

Over the years, I've been very involved in youth hockey. I will tell you that in almost every stressed child over not making a team, the player will get over it almost immediatly whereas the parent(s) will carry the snubbing for life. When I hear that "my Johnny was devestated by not making the A team and may quit hockey..." that usually the kid knew he didn't belong on the A team and Mom/Dad is sure that Johnny is the next Kyle Okposo... How do you fix this? Make all of your team "A" teams so that Mom can say that Johnny is playing on the "A" team.

I am aware that some associations will not allow parents to tryouts OR practices. As a former coach, I'm all for that. As a parent, I'm not for that at all. What has happened is that about 5% of the parents have ruined the process' for the other 95%. They either over-coach, over-evaluate other players, or just plain over-compensate for their own child-hood.

Outside evaluators? Let them pick the pool, allow the coach to pick the teams from there.

My most important advice to you all, as a person who is now sending his youngest off to play college hockey: Relax and enjoy the process. Let the kids play and either grow to love the greatest game around, or to move on. Do NOT get too involved as a parent by trying to coach them in the car, but if you get the chance to coach or manage a team, go for it!! The time goes WAY TOO FAST!!

[tomASS]

Excellent post B & G

[Can't Never Tried]

I've said for years that if you really want to pick the best team, let the kids have the ice for a couple of hours by themselves, and then have them pick the team while not allowing them to pick themselves. You take those ballots and I will "almost" guarantee that you would have the best team out of the group.

Over the years, I've been very involved in youth hockey. I will tell you that in almost every stressed child over not making a team, the player will get over it almost immediatly whereas the parent(s) will carry the snubbing for life. When I hear that "my Johnny was devestated by not making the A team and may quit hockey..." that usually the kid knew he didn't belong on the A team and Mom/Dad is sure that Johnny is the next Kyle Okposo... How do you fix this? Make all of your team "A" teams so that Mom can say that Johnny is playing on the "A" team.

I am aware that some associations will not allow parents to tryouts OR practices. As a former coach, I'm all for that. As a parent, I'm not for that at all. What has happened is that about 5% of the parents have ruined the process' for the other 95%. They either over-coach, over-evaluate other players, or just plain over-compensate for their own child-hood.

Outside evaluators? Let them pick the pool, allow the coach to pick the teams from there.

My most important advice to you all, as a person who is now sending his youngest off to play college hockey: Relax and enjoy the process. Let the kids play and either grow to love the greatest game around, or to move on. Do NOT get too involved as a parent by trying to coach them in the car, but if you get the chance to coach or manage a team, go for it!! The time goes WAY TOO FAST!!

I agree with last paragraph.
I have to add to the bold sentence above, that really means "I'm (the parent) so devastated that Johnny didn't make the "A" team that I may make him quit hockey in protest"

[watchdog]

i love this (dont coach your kid) statement. i know i have taught my kids many things about this sport as a parent. why wouldnt i? ive taught them how to hunt, fish ect.. i do appretiate the coaches that donate their time but their not holding the holy grale. i give them the respect they earn as coaches and thats about it. Nobodey knows when what how and why for anything so my logic will be my map. ill tell you one thing you can take to the bank if your son has a dream of playing college hockey and as a parent your not involved in helping him it wont happen. many stars have to line up for any kid to reach that level but the few you can control you better because nobodey else will.

[finance_gal]

i love this (dont coach your kid) statement. i know i have taught my kids many things about this sport as a parent. why wouldnt i? ive taught them how to hunt, fish ect.. i do appretiate the coaches that donate their time but their not holding the holy grale. i give them the respect they earn as coaches and thats about it. Nobodey knows when what how and why for anything so my logic will be my map. ill tell you one thing you can take to the bank if your son has a dream of playing college hockey and as a parent your not involved in helping him it wont happen. many stars have to line up for any kid to reach that level but the few you can control you better because nobodey else will.

Well said...So often as parents in all of our childrens activities were asked to pay for things, volenteer for things, buy uniforms and equipment but when it comes down to time play the game and enjoy it with our kids were told to keep our mouth shut, don't watch tryouts and don't coach your kid... If i wanted that relationship with my kids I would have abandoned them when they were young, then these coaches could have what they all seem to want, a bunch of orphans to coach.

[Can't Never Tried]

i love this (dont coach your kid) statement. i know i have taught my kids many things about this sport as a parent. why wouldnt i? ive taught them how to hunt, fish ect.. i do appretiate the coaches that donate their time but their not holding the holy grale. i give them the respect they earn as coaches and thats about it. Nobodey knows when what how and why for anything so my logic will be my map. ill tell you one thing you can take to the bank if your son has a dream of playing college hockey and as a parent your not involved in helping him it wont happen. many stars have to line up for any kid to reach that level but the few you can control you better because nobodey else will.

Well said...So often as parents in all of our childrens activities were asked to pay for things, volenteer for things, buy uniforms and equipment but when it comes down to time play the game and enjoy it with our kids were told to keep our mouth shut, don't watch tryouts and don't coach your kid... If i wanted that relationship with my kids I would have abandoned them when they were young, then these coaches could have what they all seem to want, a bunch of orphans to coach.

I like both those posts

[JoltDelivered]

Well I certainly hope nobody on this board is advocating child abandonment.

Give me a minute to cycle back here and re read the posts where we talked about that.

[Can't Never Tried]

Well I certainly hope nobody on this board is advocating child abandonment.

Give me a minute to cycle back here and re read the posts where we talked about that.

Well sooner or later they gotta go!

And also you can't go back because we have decided to close this thread to the parents.

[HockeyGuy12345]

[quote="watchdog"] [b][color=darkred]ill tell you one thing you can take to the bank if your son has a dream of playing college hockey and as a parent your not involved in helping him it wont happen.[/color] [/b]

I can't disagree with you more on that statement. I played youth and HS hockey with 3 guys that went D1 and none of their parents were involved with their hockey (other than taking them to and from and paying the ice bill). Heck, one didn't have a dad around at all and his mother knew nothing about hockey. The other's parents weren't former players, and were all layed back and reserved and never did the networking thing. I never witnessed any of their parents getting on them for anything hockey related. One thing all three players had was god given talent and the driver to succeed (on their own). They worked harder on and off the ice then anybody else. Oh, and none of them played hockey year around during their youth days. In contrast to a few other players I played with that were playing hockey 10 months of the year and their parents were pushing them to do every camp. They ended up being middle of the road HS players and didn't seem to have the same drive as the D1 guys. They played whatever sport was in season (baseball, football, soccer, etc). The D1 players didn't start playing summer hockey until HS other then maybe a week long camp in the summer. So, kids can achieve their college hockey dream without parent involvement (other than driving them and paying the ice bill which I don't think you meant).

[10ouncepuck]

I have taken both sides of this argument and probably land on letting the coaches take who they want.

The coach has to put up with the players/parents all season - in many/most cases they volunteer. Let 'em have whoever they want.

Maybe the coach just doesn't want your kid because you're a pain in the ass hockey parent who he doesn't feel like babysitting all year long. That should count for something, too.

Interesting perspective. I would ask, just where do these problem parents/players go? To the B and C teams? Aren't those coaches volunteers too? Maybe they're better at handling the rejects? I'm sure they would love to have them. I'm all for "inside evaluators", mainly because it is more efficient, but chalk one up for the "outside evaluator" option.

Parents being banned from the tryout process is a poor policy as far as I'm concerned. Usually, these same parents that act doltish during tryouts, do the same things during practices, games and just about any other endeavor. Why exclude some parents for the behavior of others?

If your kid didn't make the "right team" because he/she wasn't good enough or was screwed over use it as a teachable experience. Teach them "work ethic" and/or that "life is not always fair". In this context, it's never too early to learn these concepts.

[WileyVet]

Our assoc. used outside PAID evaluators around 8-10 years ago. After 2 days of tryouts (1 skill session 1 scrimmage) the evaluators told the coaching staff, "You have 1 mabye two A players out here". The head coach just laughed as he said, "Actually we have 2 of the best bantam players in the state in this program." This team then went on to win the Bantam state tourney and 4 players on that team went on to play division 1 hockey. Outside evaluators can't judge talent in 10 days. JMO

-wileyvet

[Can't Never Tried]

ill tell you one thing you can take to the bank if your son has a dream of playing college hockey and as a parent your not involved in helping him it wont happen.

I can't disagree with you more on that statement. I played youth and HS hockey with 3 guys that went D1 and none of their parents were involved with their hockey (other than taking them to and from and paying the ice bill). Heck, one didn't have a dad around at all and his mother knew nothing about hockey. The other's parents weren't former players, and were all layed back and reserved and never did the networking thing. I never witnessed any of their parents getting on them for anything hockey related. One thing all three players had was god given talent and the driver to succeed (on their own). They worked harder on and off the ice then anybody else. Oh, and none of them played hockey year around during their youth days. In contrast to a few other players I played with that were playing hockey 10 months of the year and their parents were pushing them to do every camp. They ended up being middle of the road HS players and didn't seem to have the same drive as the D1 guys. They played whatever sport was in season (baseball, football, soccer, etc). The D1 players didn't start playing summer hockey until HS other then maybe a week long camp in the summer. So, kids can achieve their college hockey dream without parent involvement (other than driving them and paying the ice bill which I don't think you meant).

What era did this take place? 70's 80's 90's ?
The landscape has changed so I'm curious about this, as I'm more inclined to agree that today athletes need some parental support to navigate the process, in fact I've been told by Jr and college coaches that it is wise for the parents to be actively involved...networking is huge, and a life skill that will be useful to the player if he learns how to do it.

I do not doubt that some will find there way to the upper levels based on talent alone, but there are way more players then spots to play, so if 2 equal players come to a point where one will be chosen, I'll put my $ on the one that's had support and guidance because they will probably already have a communication line open.

[tomASS]

as far as coaching your kid - if you have played the sport and you know what you are talking about then stay to the technical skill portion if you want to help your kid grow more as a skilled player.

But I would advise that you stick to technical tips off the ice or on the pond and not tactical tips.

I almost blew a brain vein this summer sitting with the parents on the sideline watch my son's "other sport" and hearing these parents giving wrong tactical instructions to the players during the game because they had no clue to the hints of what system of play the coach wanted them execute while playing.

The other reason it does no good to yell instructions at any player on the ice or field while they are playing....by the time the sound travels and the brain has time to process the command, it has become too late to PASS! or to SHOOT!

[Can't Never Tried]

as far as coaching your kid - if you have played the sport and you know what you are talking about then stay to the technical skill portion if you want to help your kid grow more as a skilled player.

But I would advise that you stick to technical tips off the ice or on the pond and not tactical tips.

I almost blew a brain vein this summer sitting with the parents on the sideline watch my son's "other sport" and hearing these parents giving wrong tactical instructions to the players during the game because they had no clue to the hints of what system of play the coach wanted them execute while playing.

The other reason it does no good to yell instructions at any player on the ice or field while they are playing....by the time the sound travels and the brain has time to process the command, it has become too late to PASS! or to SHOOT!

Yeah but "Ahhhh!! get off the ice" will still work! they'll have plenty of time to process that!

Anyway I think we pretty much hijacked this thread so I'm off it.

Back to outside evaluators !

[tomASS]

Correct

I like the idea of outside evaluators to establish a pool for the inside coaches to make a selections from.

If I have to coach a team, I want to be able to pick the players that will help make the team the most successful it can be.

[watchdog]

hey to each their own. thats the beauty of it. when you break it all down hockey is just a sport for fun. i just think cnt nailed it we live in a much diffrent time. 15 years ago if you were a rink rat all winter you were probley the best player around 25 years ago hands down!!!! now you can do multiple sports but you better be doing something on the side while your playing golf.. you see god given talent is one of the stars that have to line up, drive is another theirs still many left. what use to be the quota is constantly evolving. its getting very close to the point where minnesota hs hockey will no longer be a steping stone to anything and i have been a loyalist to program hockey. if you really pay attention to what is happening in hockey its becoming very clear that other venues are taking over. minnesota has to adapt and fix this growing problem because all of us blind parents are taking notice. with all the money and work that goes into hockey these days its no longer just a game its a chess match. i try not to complicate things i just watch and do what my gut tells me to do. my kids love hockey and they will play anytime and anywhere and ultimately i have the power over all of it. my money and my time and i use both at my discretion.

[32HockeyFan]

I'll offer a different point of view. Our association has not allowed parents at tryouts since we've been a part of it. This year will be my son's 6th and final tryout for youth hockey. I've never watched any of his tryouts. It's worked out very well. No parent disagreements on who should have made the 'A' team and who shouldn't have since none of us were there to see how tryouts went. There is less stress on everyone involved from evaluators to parents to the kids. If they changed the rules and allowed us to attend tryouts this year I would still not attend. It's the basic concept of if you've never done something, you don't miss it. Give it a try this year. Stay away from your child's tryout and you'll realize it's no big deal.