Tryouts: Outside evaluators ??

[Lily Braden]

as far as coaching your kid - if you have played the sport and you know what you are talking about then stay to the technical skill portion if you want to help your kid grow more as a skilled player.

But I would advise that you stick to technical tips off the ice or on the pond and not tactical tips.

I almost blew a brain vein this summer sitting with the parents on the sideline watch my son's "other sport" and hearing these parents giving wrong tactical instructions to the players during the game because they had no clue to the hints of what system of play the coach wanted them execute while playing.

The other reason it does no good to yell instructions at any player on the ice or field while they are playing....by the time the sound travels and the brain has time to process the command, it has become too late to PASS! or to SHOOT!

I love this "other sport" quote.
Our son plays lacrosse in the summer. I have no clue about that game. I believe you have to scream "scoop thru" 47 times a game, by law. And apparently you can lift your stick up and bash the opposing player without being penalized. Except when you can't. Clearly, I don't get the game...but I have to say it was a lot of fun to watch and it didn't seem like the parents got as worked up about the results as our hockey team.

I'm making a pledge to take the zen of lacrosse viewing with me to the hockey rink this season.

Regarding tryouts...I don't go, but Mr. Braden attends. He played a lot of hockey in his day and tends not to get twisted about these things. He's already got the zen thing down. I think parents should be allowed at tryouts, but they should behave like grown-ups.

[Blue&Gold]

I have to add these two things to the discussion(s)..

I was actually a paid "outside evaluator" a few years back for an association about 30 miles away. When I was finished with my rankings, they wanted me to "pick their A and B1 teams" from the list. I told them that they should just give this list to the two coaches, and let them make the final picks. A few folks went nuts over that.... NO WAY would they allow the coaches to have a say... That was sad, but I did convince them to let me sit with the coaches and "help them" to pick the teams. It ended up OK in the long run.

Item 2: When my son went through the youth association, there were supposedly 5 or 6 guys who would be playing D1 hockey in his age group. You would have thought that we had 10 or 12 the way the parents acted those 6or 8 years. We have one going off this year to play at Michigan State, and one still in the USHL that should end up being in a D1 school. Here in St. Cloud, out of any age group, we get one every-other year or so making it to college D1 hockey. The current junior/senior group (3 high schools) and even add Sauk Rapids and Sartell we have probably 2 that will play D1? What I'm saying is RELAX and ENJOY the kids time to play the game. Very few of the kids will play past high school.

[DMom]

Give it a try this year. Stay away from your child's tryout and you'll realize it's no big deal.

I agree, I think if you try it you will find a lot to feel good about in the coming winter.

[tomASS]

Give it a try this year. Stay away from your child's tryout and you'll realize it's no big deal.

I agree, I think if you try it you will find a lot to feel good about in the coming winter.

I only did it because I prefer a cold beer and a game of Golden Tee.

[Doglover]

Use outside evaluators (and have them assist coaches in choosing teams) and stay away from tryouts! You'll be much happier and so will your player.

[O-townClown]

What I'm saying is RELAX and ENJOY the kids time to play the game. Very few of the kids will play past high school.

Imagine my jaw hitting the floor today at my son's hockey camp. Another father told me he wants his son to play college hockey on scholarship. Now mind you, the kid:

* is 6 years old
* is TINY
* lives in Florida

I told him his son has a lot of work to do and the dad has to make a tremendous commitment in order to facilitate this dream. Good luck.

You are dead on with your post. Now add the fact that many kids that play past HS don't have enjoyable experiences and you rightfully conclude that kids should play because they like it.

[HockeyGuy12345]

[quote="Can't Never Tried"][quote="HockeyGuy12345"][quote="watchdog"] [b][color=darkred]ill tell you one thing you can take to the bank if your son has a dream of playing college hockey and as a parent your not involved in helping him it wont happen.[/color] [/b]

I can't disagree with you more on that statement. I played youth and HS hockey with 3 guys that went D1 and none of their parents were involved with their hockey (other than taking them to and from and paying the ice bill). Heck, one didn't have a dad around at all and his mother knew nothing about hockey. The other's parents weren't former players, and were all layed back and reserved and never did the networking thing. I never witnessed any of their parents getting on them for anything hockey related. One thing all three players had was god given talent and the driver to succeed (on their own). They worked harder on and off the ice then anybody else. Oh, and none of them played hockey year around during their youth days. In contrast to a few other players I played with that were playing hockey 10 months of the year and their parents were pushing them to do every camp. They ended up being middle of the road HS players and didn't seem to have the same drive as the D1 guys. They played whatever sport was in season (baseball, football, soccer, etc). The D1 players didn't start playing summer hockey until HS other then maybe a week long camp in the summer. So, kids can achieve their college hockey dream without parent involvement (other than driving them and paying the ice bill which I don't think you meant).[/quote]

What era did this take place? 70's 80's 90's ?
The landscape has changed so I'm curious about this, as I'm more inclined to agree that today athletes need some parental support to navigate the process, in fact I've been told by Jr and college coaches that it is wise for the parents to be actively involved...networking is huge, and a life skill that will be useful to the player if he learns how to do it.

I do not doubt that some will find there way to the upper levels based on talent alone, but there are way more players then spots to play, so if 2 equal players come to a point where one will be chosen, I'll put my $ on the one that's had support and guidance because they will probably already have a communication line open.
[/quote]


It was back in the early 90's.

I agree the landscape has changed and there is no doubt networking is important as a life skill. The college coaches I know like the kids that do their own networking not mom and dad doing it for him. I know a few HS kids that sought out the college they wanted to go to and did everything under their power to make it happen. College coaches love that attitude. They are less likely to cause problems and have better character/drive/leadership. Parents can still cause problems at the DI or DIII levels. There are plenty of scouts at Elite/HS/Junior games that if they are good enough they will get noticed on their own merit. Believe me the scouts will find the parent(s) if they are interested. Just as many of todays AAA youth coaches see talent and inquire about them.

That being said, many kids have dreams to play college hockey and make it happen on their own even in today's landscape. Remember, nobody gets scholarships in SQ/PW/Bantam. If your kid is a star in youth hockey he will be found by the top AAA coaches and if he plateau's in HS he will just as easily be forgotten no matter how many contacts the parents have.

Just curious, what is your definition of support and guidance as it relates to todays hockey?

[/quote]

[Observer85]

What era did this take place? 70's 80's 90's ?
The landscape has changed so I'm curious about this, as I'm more inclined to agree that today athletes need some parental support to navigate the process, in fact I've been told by Jr and college coaches that it is wise for the parents to be actively involved...networking is huge, and a life skill that will be useful to the player if he learns how to do it.

I do not doubt that some will find there way to the upper levels based on talent alone, but there are way more players then spots to play, so if 2 equal players come to a point where one will be chosen, I'll put my $ on the one that's had support and guidance because they will probably already have a communication line open.

It was back in the early 90's.

I agree the landscape has changed and there is no doubt networking is important as a life skill. The college coaches I know like the kids that do their own networking not mom and dad doing it for him. I know a few HS kids that sought out the college they wanted to go to and did everything under their power to make it happen. College coaches love that attitude. They are less likely to cause problems and have better character/drive/leadership. Parents can still cause problems at the DI or DIII levels. There are plenty of scouts at Elite/HS/Junior games that if they are good enough they will get noticed on their own merit. Believe me the scouts will find the parent(s) if they are interested. Just as many of todays AAA youth coaches see talent and inquire about them.

That being said, many kids have dreams to play college hockey and make it happen on their own even in today's landscape. Remember, nobody gets scholarships in SQ/PW/Bantam. If your kid is a star in youth hockey he will be found by the top AAA coaches and if he plateau's in HS he will just as easily be forgotten no matter how many contacts the parents have.

Just curious, what is your definition of support and guidance as it relates to todays hockey?

It would help make reading this easier if you guys would learn how to use the quote feature. Can't tell who is writing what and when unless I really focus on the writing...yikes. When I hit the quote key, it reads easier like above.

[Observer85]

When my son went through the youth association, there were supposedly 5 or 6 guys who would be playing D1 hockey in his age group. You would have thought that we had 10 or 12 the way the parents acted those 6or 8 years. We have one going off this year to play at Michigan State, and one still in the USHL that should end up being in a D1 school. Here in St. Cloud, out of any age group, we get one every-other year or so making it to college D1 hockey. The current junior/senior group (3 high schools) and even add Sauk Rapids and Sartell we have probably 2 that will play D1? What I'm saying is RELAX and ENJOY the kids time to play the game. Very few of the kids will play past high school.

Amen. Same here in the south metro. The focus by some parents is beyond belief for their son who might be missing one or more of the 5 S's of hockey...Speed, Size, Strength, Skill and Smarts.

So few make it to the college level - what parents have to realize it is the competition is coming from across the country, not just in Minnesota. If a kid is lucky enough to make it out of Minnesota to the juniors level, they then get to encounter more competition from players in other parts of the country that are actually pretty good otherwise they would not be playing juniors.

[tomASS]

It would help make reading this easier if you guys would learn how to use the quote feature. Can't tell who is writing what and when unless I really focus on the writing...yikes. When I hit the quote key, it reads easier like above.

I think Lee is teaching a class in posting etiquette............I would attend but would probably be banned

[Can't Never Tried]

Just curious, what is your definition of support and guidance as it relates to todays hockey?

You should probably start a new topic if you want to continue down this path.
So last comment..
I'm guessing because of your 90's answer that you probably don't have a player between HS and Jr's /college at this point.(just guessing)

B&G once posted a guide to navigating Jr Hockey (or something like that)
If you read through that, and then take and read through the NCAA clearinghouse requirements and instructions, you will have a better idea of what I mean by support and guidance.
If there are many opportunities available, you the parent might be the difference in a good or bad choice.
I also agree yes it is important for the kid to do as much as possible on their own, but I guess I've never got a negative response yet from a coach for asking questions my kid may not think to ask.

[watchdog]

heres my answer- its NOT kissing a## for me anyway. what i mean by support is getting your kid to the rink for all the extra ice time. thats winter and summer. help your kids with work out programs. make sure they have a net to shoot on in the summer. with three boys my support roll is very time consuming and expensive. i dont worry about any of my kids making anything. i tell the kids to strive to be your best and ill do my part have fun and have no regrets.

[Doglover]

This thread has seemed to evolve naturally into the parents' role in their player's hockey development. It's easy (easier when my kids were young) when they are young - they go through the association, do some clinics in the summer, play on a AAA team with their buddies and it's all good and fun. It gets so much trickier as they get older. Now with the new young group of parents coming in, they've complicated even the younger levels!!

When the kids reach the Select age levels and you see the kids from all over the country - it is an eye opener. Suddenly your player who has always dominated his PWA and BA teams - even in strong associations - no longer stands out. MN has great hockey players but so do other places like Chicago, Boston, FL etc. That doesn't even add in the Canadian players yet. Odds of playing D1 college very, very slim. There are some great players that are 5'9" and below, but it is definitely not the norm. Managing kids expectations (during the tryout process and beyond Bantams) is a parents' main responsibility in my opinion. You want them to dream and work for their dream, but I think you have to introduce the dose of reality. They aren't a failure if they don't play HS or D1. Enjoy the ride, try to make the right choices for them to have as much success as they can and want, but ultimately we have so little control in this wonderful sport.

[Blue&Gold]

Well said Doglover.. I think that's the point I want to make along with: The player has to be the driver, not the parent. My son is the one who said what he wanted, and he had to make it happen. I gave him the opportunities, but he had to do the work, and he had to want it. How many kids do you see who really fight going to practice, yet the parents are convinced that they're D1 material? I can honestly say that I have NEVER seen a kid make it past high school who didn't go to practices without question.

Our USHL experience mirrors that statement. These young men are fighting for the best lines, playing time, scholarships, and visibility. Every one of those players were the top players in their areas, but they are just one of the group when the best get together. (I know Observer will back me on this, our son's played together for one year in the USHL... it's not an easy task..)

A full-ride in D1 is every players and parents dream. A few get there, most don't. Some get partial scholarships, many get little if any help. I'm fortunate in that we are riding the tide in my household, but we also knew it might not have happened. Our son made it happen, I didn't network or make calls, I gave him the opportunity and was available if someone did want to talk to me.

Enjoy the ride folks, and have fun with the kids and other parents. Don't get caught up in the future stuff so much, let the kids play for the NOW.... the future will be what it will be...

[blondegirlsdad]

>A full-ride in D1 is every players and parents dream.

Sometimes the goal isn't D1, the NHL or the Olympics (especially with girls, who have no NHL).

Sometimes the goal is just to play for the High School team, or continue playing with your buddies past U14. I have already decided my 10 year old will not be on the 2020 Olympic Squad (even if she hasn't). Given the huge number of girls playing hockey here, playing for the Varsity would be just fine.

But back to the topic: I go along with the idea that the coaches need input on their team. Everyone can pick 1-8, but 9-20 is awfully subjective.

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

Please keep everything in perspective. Parents are paying a lot of money for their kids to play hockey. The kids play in a local association made up of local volunteers.
Why would any volunteer tell parents they aren't welcomed to watch the tryouts?
I'm totally for outside evaluators. We all know that some people get treated more fair than others. In most cases its because some one is trying to get ahead by doing favors. This is typical in the adult world. But do NOT penalize the youth because Billy's dad used to play pro hockey or owns a local business that sponsors the association.
Let the kids earn the spot not the parents.

I also get a kick out of association members and their dislike for the typical so called hockey parent. Once again keep everything in perspective. Do you really think parents weren't like this back in the good old days? Do you really think this is a new problem?
To be partial to the tryout process you need to have outside people making the decision on who plays on the team. The overall objective is to make sure the best players are picked to play on the best teams. Very simple!

vol·un·teer /ˌvɒlənˈtɪər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[vol-uhn-teer] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a person who voluntarily offers himself or herself for a service or undertaking.
2. a person who performs a service willingly and without pay.
3. A person who shows favortism to friends and neighbors in order to benefit from doing a favor.

[Doglover]

Quaker/Boogie/Bernie you're back!! Were you out traveling checking out Squirt clinics around the midwest? Making sure there wasn't something better than MM. We've missed you. I thought maybe you got banned! Again!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your son hasn't actually gone through an association tryout right? You have so much knowledge to share though? I think we all know the definition of volunteer and appreciate the hard work they do to create a great hockey opportunity for ALL the kids. I just read the latest copy of LPH and saw all the tournament postings. That's a ton of work that volunteers have been doing during the summer to get the tournaments set up and now they'll do even more to handle all the team registrations - Thanks to all of you! It's a huge job and most of us appreciate all you're doing. We don't all think that you volunteer all those hours so that you can show favoritism and give kids unfair advantages. If you think it would make your job and the jobs of the coaches easier to not have parents in the stands during tryouts, then I think you have every right to ban parents. I bet the kids would applaud your decision.

Quaker-Boogie-Bernie I heard parents couldn't even watch the Machine practices - rumor or truth? Can parents watch Bernie tryouts? Just curious how you do things on your elite pond in Edina.

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

Quaker/Boogie/Bernie you're back!! Were you out traveling checking out Squirt clinics around the midwest? Making sure there wasn't something better than MM. We've missed you. I thought maybe you got banned! Again!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your son hasn't actually gone through an association tryout right? You have so much knowledge to share though? I think we all know the definition of volunteer and appreciate the hard work they do to create a great hockey opportunity for ALL the kids. I just read the latest copy of LPH and saw all the tournament postings. That's a ton of work that volunteers have been doing during the summer to get the tournaments set up and now they'll do even more to handle all the team registrations - Thanks to all of you! It's a huge job and most of us appreciate all you're doing. We don't all think that you volunteer all those hours so that you can show favoritism and give kids unfair advantages. If you think it would make your job and the jobs of the coaches easier to not have parents in the stands during tryouts, then I think you have every right to ban parents. I bet the kids would applaud your decision.

Quaker-Boogie-Bernie I heard parents couldn't even watch the Machine practices - rumor or truth? Can parents watch Bernie tryouts? Just curious how you do things on your elite pond in Edina.

Doglover- I agree! Thanks to all the volunteers that serve all communites. I appreciate the hard work, blood, sweat, and tears.

If you must know I coach multiple sports and volunteer to help out when needed in my community.

No need to cover the favortism part because we all know it happens. It's kind of human nature in the adult world. But to let it effect our youth so much that they might not make a team is brutal.

[HockeyDadMN]

Some associations don't need tryouts at all. The A coaches are already practicing with the A/B players they have picked and after seeing the players in Aug, will probably have picked the A team by Sept. Outside evaluators would change the outcome a bit, but most of all they would make the majority of the parents a lot happier. The majority will remain silent as usual and allow politics to prevail. Change is way overdue and will happen someday, but most of our children will probably have grown up by then.

[council member retired]

I dont' think it will go away, it can only get controlled or in some unfortunate situations worse.

Having parents allowed to watch tryouts.....hmmmm what do you think the kids may want? Dad out in the car or Dad pressed up against the glass. I have always wished we closed our tryouts to parents.

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

I dont' think it will go away, it can only get controlled or in some unfortunate situations worse.

Having parents allowed to watch tryouts.....hmmmm what do you think the kids may want? Dad out in the car or Dad pressed up against the glass. I have always wished we closed our tryouts to parents.

Close tryouts? What logical reasoning do you have? Keep in mind that this is local association sports. Nothing different than baseball, football, basketball or soccer. If parents are paying over $1k for their kids to play hockey I think they earn the right to watch tryouts if they choose to do so. Another thing to keep in mind you have parents running the associations who are volunteering their time to the community. So this means you have parents telling other parents they cannot watch tryouts. Makes sense to me.

[trippedovertheblueline]

My over the hill team has been evaluators for four different baseball associations, they all have close tryouts. I am not sure that is uncommon.

[greybeard58]

A question for all. When your child is either playing in a game or at a practice and makes a mistake, where is the first place he/she looks?

Answer: If it is at the coach then no problem, if looking for the parent, then there is a problem as they are more worried what their parents are telling them how to play the game than the coach.

With closed tryouts it is better and more relaxing for the players with out their parents looking at every move. I have seen both good and bad tryouts with bad evaluators and also bad parents, no system is perfect and yes players do get missed or maybe the coach is looking for the bubble player that while not a pretty player will go in the corner.

The closed tryouts are better for all.

[DMom]

My over the hill team has been evaluators for four different baseball associations, they all have close tryouts. I am not sure that is uncommon.

what a great way to give back to a game you must love!! Our baseball tryouts are closed and I think the parents are just used to it.

[Can't Never Tried]

My over the hill team has been evaluators for four different baseball associations, they all have close tryouts. I am not sure that is uncommon.

what a great way to give back to a game you must love!! Our baseball tryouts are closed and I think the parents are just used to it.

They're scouting!