Eden Prairie Cuts Seniors

[Elvis]

The coach may get sick of some these kids and want to get fresh blood in there as well. I agree that the Seniors should be rewarded if they're good enough, but perhaps the attitudes are not in the right place after two years on JV. Nothing more poisonous to team chemistry than a distraught senior.

[hockeylover]

Anybody have the EP varsity roster for this year? How many sophmores did they take?

[peskycardinal]

It is a shame all of these seniors get cut at EP year after year but I think the real question here is not being addressed. Why aren't these players developing during their high school years? EP's youth program continues to feed their Varsity team sophomores who have tasted success. These players are talented enough to make the team but not talented enough to keep from getting cut two years later as seniors?! If there was player development going on during their sophmore and junior years, the program would have balance and only the top couple sophomores would make it each year. If there was player development going on, EP wouldn't have lost a player to Shattuck and two to the USHL this year. High school players should not regress from their Bantam years.

[Papa Bergundy]

I think this Lee Smith could back himself pretty legitimately with the picks he made this year.

People have said it and it needs to be heard, this sophomore class is the best EP has seen in a while. So for this particular season I will back this guy up.

However, if the goal of this topic was to show his year after year habit of doing this, then you're right, he's an idiot.

Look he's skating on thin ice (pun intended) and he knows it. Better start winning in the next couple years or he'll be filling the water bottles for a Squirt C team.

[Doglover]

Here's the text from the earlier post in the EP newspaper:

Stand up, village

They say it takes a village to raise a child. Well, when are they no longer considered children? After middle school? High school? College? Or somewhere in between? It is that time of year again, when tryouts begin for the high school winter sports. I would challenge you all to keep an eye on this year’s high school hockey tryouts, where year after year our seniors are treated as “disposables” as equally able younger players are chosen instead. (Please note I am not referring to the Chad Raus or Nick Leddys but our typical Eden Prairie hockey players.) This does give Lee Smith his usual excuse for not making it out of sectionals, it’s a young team, it’s an inexperienced team, but is it right?

After over a decade of coaching, do you see any state placings by his varsity teams? Yet these are the same players that go to state as squirts, bantams, peewees and junior gold players. Maybe it is time to look at the coaching and take a stand for our senior players. It has been shown throughout the years that the successful Eden Prairie High School student is one that is involved. Is it right that they be thrown away, lose this involvement simply to give a coach his long overworn excuse for not developing a competitive team? These boys deserve better. Not just the ones that get the shaft but the ones that remain on the team as well. It’s time for this “village” to stand up for these boys.

Lynn PLEASE BAN ME

Eden Prairie

[goldy313]

I don't get the "future vs. present" argument coaches use to pick teams for a number of reasons.

1) There is no guarentee these sophomores will develop or if they do, stay.
2) You risk losing your team, cutting good kids for kids that aren't as good but may have more potential shows you not only don't have confidence in the kids you cut but also in the upperclassmen you kept.
3) Sophomores rarely make an impact their first season.
4) As pointed out, there's a ready made excuse for lack of success

A team I follow cut 3 3rd line variety seniors for a group of sophomores who aren't anywhere near as good, to make matters look even worse a couple of these sophomores never even tried out, they showed up after cuts were made. There is little question the team is worse off this year in the hopes that in 2 years they will be good.

[bigcarl]

try reading bigcarl thats not the case. After talking to more people in the system it seems that the issue is not cutting seniors it is the coach who appearntly has no clue what he is doing because the seniors he cut are more then better then the sophmores he took and is obviouse to anyone who plays hockey. "Lee Smith would do Eden Praire a huge favor by resigning" litterally qouted from niehter a parent or a player affected by the cuts. Anyone have thoughts or know Lees real background? I've also been told Lee has made and taken deals from parents in the past.

Your obviously going to cut a senior before a sophomore. he's probably just trying to get the team ready for a the next coming years.

[stmartin123]

I once knew a team, the coach had 14 seniors, 4 or 5 juniors, and a handful of underclassman. The coach had the option of cutting the seniors to get ready for the following years. The coach, being a smart guy, cut only 2 out of the 14 seniors. Those seniors led the team to one of its best years ever, making it to state and being one of the best teams in the state. My point; no one can estimate the poise, the leadership, and the drive and determination of a senior. If it comes down to choosing between an underclassman and a senior, in my opinion choose the senior. Have the underclassman practice with varsity, groom him the way you want, throw him in 4th line or maybe even 3rd. Seniors can lead your team to the promise land, sophomores cant.

[hockeyboys]

If the same thing is happening year after year - seniors are cut in favor of sophomores with more potential, then apparently the players are not being developed after they get to High School. Sounds like the youth program is developing players for the High School team, and after they get there, they are not improving, thus every year the younger players take spots from upper classman. Perhaps the coach is choosing the best players at tryouts - but someone should be questioning the development of the players after they get into the HS system.

[Puckguy19]

Here's the text from the earlier post in the EP newspaper:

Stand up, village

They say it takes a village to raise a child. Well, when are they no longer considered children? After middle school? High school? College? Or somewhere in between? It is that time of year again, when tryouts begin for the high school winter sports. I would challenge you all to keep an eye on this year’s high school hockey tryouts, where year after year our seniors are treated as “disposables” as equally able younger players are chosen instead. (Please note I am not referring to the Chad Raus or Nick Leddys but our typical Eden Prairie hockey players.) This does give Lee Smith his usual excuse for not making it out of sectionals, it’s a young team, it’s an inexperienced team, but is it right?

After over a decade of coaching, do you see any state placings by his varsity teams? Yet these are the same players that go to state as squirts, bantams, peewees and junior gold players. Maybe it is time to look at the coaching and take a stand for our senior players. It has been shown throughout the years that the successful Eden Prairie High School student is one that is involved. Is it right that they be thrown away, lose this involvement simply to give a coach his long overworn excuse for not developing a competitive team? These boys deserve better. Not just the ones that get the shaft but the ones that remain on the team as well. It’s time for this “village” to stand up for these boys.

Lynn PLEASE BAN ME

Eden Prairie

I'm guessing Lynn's children have all moved through the program?

[boardguy1998]

Here's the text from the earlier
Eden Prairie

I'm guessing Lynn's children have all moved through the program?

No, Lynn's children never made it, into the program. Her goalie son played Bantams as a sophmore and Jr Gold as a Jr and Sr.

[east hockey]

In case anyone is wondering why the letter writer's last name was changed to PLEASE BAN ME, it's an automated word censor in place. In this case, because the first three letters of the writer's last name ("F a g") look like a slur to the censor, it changed it. I thought it was strange when I first saw the name until I Googled "Lynn", "Eden Prairie" and "Lee Smith" and found the story.

Pretty rough crowd down there. Reminds me a bit of a few sets of parents from a local team.

Lee

[shakey]

I once knew a team, the coach had 14 seniors, 4 or 5 juniors, and a handful of underclassman. The coach had the option of cutting the seniors to get ready for the following years. The coach, being a smart guy, cut only 2 out of the 14 seniors. Those seniors led the team to one of its best years ever, making it to state and being one of the best teams in the state. My point; no one can estimate the poise, the leadership, and the drive and determination of a senior. If it comes down to choosing between an underclassman and a senior, in my opinion choose the senior. Have the underclassman practice with varsity, groom him the way you want, throw him in 4th line or maybe even 3rd. Seniors can lead your team to the promise land, sophomores cant.

I disagree. It is a coach's job to estimate the poise, leadership, drive and determination of each and every one of his players when choosing a team. Maybe the coach did exactly this and picked his team accordingly.

[mnpuckfan21]

If a senior forward is not seen to be in the top 3-4 lines, and a senior defensemen is not in the top 6, why would a coach keep him? The kid can't play JV, and he's not seen as a varsity contributor. What is more humiliating for a kid, to get cut, play Junior Gold, and have fun doing it? or sit the bench for every single game in front of your friends and family, maybe getting a few mop-up shifts here and there?

The fact is, at the varsity level, the best athletes need to play! This isn't bantams or peewees anymore.

Let the coaches coach for god's sake!

[Morethanagame]

First of all, to say that Lee has a habit of cutting seniors is stretching it. He takes juniors on his JV team to see if they can be varsity players in their junior or senior years. It gives those juniors, who might be late bloomers a chance to make it as a senior. Many are historically B players who are getting a chance which is good. What happens then is that they either get cut their senior year OR they actually blossom and pass up a historically A player. Tough to blame the coach for that....

Second, through the years at EP, we have seen top scorers either in Bantams or HS, leave the program. Go back to Smaagard (hurt) Rau, DeZellar, Kristo, Wetmore, Clark, etc. If a program loses their top scorer, it changes the potential of the team. Lee gets bashed because his teams don't do as well as the Bantams? Take a closer look....

Third, if I'm a coach and I look at my potential group of seniors and they are mostly grinders with perhaps one goal scorer - who's everybodys buddy but continually takes chances with the rules off the ice, (and brings the grinders into his bad habits) and I have a good core of kids coming up, I might conclude that the seniors really don't want to win enough to make sacrifices. AND that I can't trust them, then the coach has every right to give them the boot and give the winning young kids a chance...

[gerryodrowski]

First of all, to say that Lee has a habit of cutting seniors is stretching it. He takes juniors on his JV team to see if they can be varsity players in their junior or senior years. It gives those juniors, who might be late bloomers a chance to make it as a senior. Many are historically B players who are getting a chance which is good. What happens then is that they either get cut their senior year OR they actually blossom and pass up a historically A player. Tough to blame the coach for that....

Second, through the years at EP, we have seen top scorers either in Bantams or HS, leave the program. Go back to Smaagard (hurt) Rau, DeZellar, Kristo, Wetmore, Clark, etc. If a program loses their top scorer, it changes the potential of the team. Lee gets bashed because his teams don't do as well as the Bantams? Take a closer look....

Third, if I'm a coach and I look at my potential group of seniors and they are mostly grinders with perhaps one goal scorer - who's everybodys buddy but continually takes chances with the rules off the ice, (and brings the grinders into his bad habits) and I have a good core of kids coming up, I might conclude that the seniors really don't want to win enough to make sacrifices. AND that I can't trust them, then the coach has every right to give them the boot and give the winning young kids a chance...

At last, at informed post on this subject!

[karl(east)]

Pretty rough crowd down there. Reminds me a bit of a few sets of parents from a local team.

Lee

Hmm, this does sound a bit familiar...
I wonder what it's reminding me of...?

[boardguy1998]

I dont want to sound like an upset parent or player cause this is not the case. But my question is why? If you live in eden prairie or know people who do it is no secret that the Boys High School Hockey Coach is not highly respected. This could be due to his "senior cuts" year after year the JV team is only a holding tank not to mention this team only looses one or two games a year. Making you believe he is possibly "rebuilding the team".This year ten seniors were cut and out of those ten six had previously played varsity the other four JV (understanding one of the six had violations and choose his fate). Leaving these kids to play Junior Gold A this team also has a winning record and makes it to state just about every year. Eden Prairie Varsity on the other hand usually has a winning record of .600 and rarely makes it to state. Is it time for a new coach? or Is there a method to this?

Bardown, I think only 2 were varsity players. The other 8 were 2 year JV players, with maybe a game or two of varsity. I wouldn't call them varsity players.

[oldbarn7]

goldy313

You're really making a stretch to relate that statement here. You say you saw a team cut a group of 3rd line seniors for some sophomores who weren't nearly as good? And to top it off those sophomores didn't even try out? And then you go on to say that the team[u] IS[/u] worse off if they do this?

I have a few questions:
-Was this a major program with a large number of kids like EP?
My answer is probably not

-Have you seen what Edina has done since they made some senior cuts to make way for Buddish, Everson and Co.?
Back to back (maybe to back) state tournament appearances, some D-I scholarships, and a return to power in high school hockey.

-Especially with the recent success of neighbor school Edina, are these cuts by Lee Smith warranted?
Yes. Back to back state titles in bantams. A coach dreams of having that team fall into his lap. How can you say that some of these kids aren't ready to play instead of a few seniors that played a very small amount of games last year. With the recent success of Edina, why would Lee Smith let this opportunity, with a similar situation, melt away by cutting them in favor of some seniors that aren't very experienced themselves. When running a varsity hockey program it makes sense to cut them. It's the truth. I'm sorry. There young players me not be AS highly touted, but led by Kyle Rau (who is already being wooed by a number of schools) this class could have a similar effect as Edina's "super" sophomores.

Just my opinion.


[/quote]

[youngblood08]

We are starting to think this is more about the coach and less about Youth and living the HS experience. All this building for the years to come and taking the youth. It's all BS. I have yet to see a team led by underclassmen head to State and then after they do have some success those kids leave for Jrs to swell thier egos.

Keep the Seniors its a right of passage!

[scoreboard33]

Amen charliedog, two schools of thought,

A) you give more kids a shot at the experience of playing highschool hockey. ....and suffer the rath of angry parents or;

B) you build for the future, step on a few toes, and make a run at the big prize.

Don't know which is right or wrong, thats for each coach to decide.

The problem is EP manages to get the worst of both worlds.

[Morethanagame]

Keep the Seniors its a right of passage![/quote]

No way. Times have changed. There's too much pressure on coaches/programs to simply call playing as a senior a "right of passage". A kid needs to come back from his junior year stronger, faster and more determined to help lead. Not follow....Parents and coaches need to make that absolutely clear to the child....learning to be a man.....

[youngblood08]

Keep the Seniors its a right of passage!

No way. Times have changed. There's too much pressure on coaches/programs to simply call playing as a senior a "right of passage". A kid needs to come back from his junior year stronger, faster and more determined to help lead. Not follow....Parents and coaches need to make that absolutely clear to the child....learning to be a man.....[/quote]


Who says they didn't do what was asked of them over the summer? My point is EVERY year in High school hockey is a REBUILDING year as the personnal changes. Weather it's a new goalie or graduating 10 seniors, there is always change. Kids play 2 -3 years of squirts, 2 years of peewee, 2 years of bantams Why is it so important for the to play 3-4 years of High school? It has more to do with the pressure to win by parents then it does about High school kids living out thier HS dreams.

Grant it, if the senior has an attitude or other problems then cutting them is the answer but to use this REBUILDING line is a joke.

[elliott70]

Keeping and playing seniors is NOT a right of passage.

Never has been. At least since the end of WW2.

[elliott70]

Lee, this one should be locked up.