willmar should get one seed then, because they beat hutchElvis wrote:I think Hutch gets the one seed due to head-to-head competition, which is/should be the first criteria when seeding any section.
Preseason Predictions for Section 3A
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
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letsgowild
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:07 am
I have a couple things to comment on:
-ClassicHockey: you've made a couple good arguements of why YOU think the teams in this section can't play. But here's some more numbers to prove to you that the top couple teams here can play. Sure, sartell lost to Alex 0-9, but two days before NU beat then ranked Sartell 3-1, sartell tied alex 3-3 in alexandria. You must have forgotten that huh? Here's another one for ya. You said that lourdes is in the list of top class A team's? I'll agree with that. Too bad they just lost to Albert Lea, who lost to Winona, who got beat by NEW ULM. So New Ulm is right there (sorry everyone else in 3A. I'm a parent in NU so i don't know a lot about the rest) So unless you got some better numbers to throw at me, shut-up. To tell ya the truth, i think the section 3A winner will make some noise in state. They won't win, but they will give some teams a run for their money. Then your all gonna say how mistaken you were about us. And i hope one of us plays whatever team your on and lights you up (if you can even make it)
-Elvis: If you think it should go head-to-head then willmar still wouldn't be the one seed cuz hutch, NU, and willmar have all beat each other.
-Alkali_27: Sartell may not have been a great team, but they are a good team. NU beating them means something. And willmar held them tough too. I believe willmar did good against Alexandria as well.
-ClassicHockey: you've made a couple good arguements of why YOU think the teams in this section can't play. But here's some more numbers to prove to you that the top couple teams here can play. Sure, sartell lost to Alex 0-9, but two days before NU beat then ranked Sartell 3-1, sartell tied alex 3-3 in alexandria. You must have forgotten that huh? Here's another one for ya. You said that lourdes is in the list of top class A team's? I'll agree with that. Too bad they just lost to Albert Lea, who lost to Winona, who got beat by NEW ULM. So New Ulm is right there (sorry everyone else in 3A. I'm a parent in NU so i don't know a lot about the rest) So unless you got some better numbers to throw at me, shut-up. To tell ya the truth, i think the section 3A winner will make some noise in state. They won't win, but they will give some teams a run for their money. Then your all gonna say how mistaken you were about us. And i hope one of us plays whatever team your on and lights you up (if you can even make it)
-Elvis: If you think it should go head-to-head then willmar still wouldn't be the one seed cuz hutch, NU, and willmar have all beat each other.
-Alkali_27: Sartell may not have been a great team, but they are a good team. NU beating them means something. And willmar held them tough too. I believe willmar did good against Alexandria as well.
Tuesday action
Hutch lost to Holy Angels a great team
Litch lost to Delano
Redwood won Becker Big lake
Marshall won Sleepy Eye
Willmar won St Cloud Apallo thats a spit for the year.
New Ulm won St Peter.
New Ulm Vs Litch on Thursday Should be a good game.
Windom dropped 2 easy ones to Waseca and Minneapolis East.
This is fun
Hutch lost to Holy Angels a great team
Litch lost to Delano
Redwood won Becker Big lake
Marshall won Sleepy Eye
Willmar won St Cloud Apallo thats a spit for the year.
New Ulm won St Peter.
New Ulm Vs Litch on Thursday Should be a good game.
Windom dropped 2 easy ones to Waseca and Minneapolis East.
This is fun
Wilmar has to bad of a record to get any higher than 3rd.. I would not be surprised if Redwood gets seeded 3rd and Wilmar 4thletsgowild wrote:willmar should get one seed then, because they beat hutchElvis wrote:I think Hutch gets the one seed due to head-to-head competition, which is/should be the first criteria when seeding any section.
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wild4hockey9
- Posts: 30
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alkali: I think that Letsgowild was trying to make the point that Hutch has also lost a game to Willmar so why should they get the #1 seed when they all have losses against each other. I for one also think that head to head is important but when teams have wins and losses against each other you have to look at other things like Sec record, common teams played against, and over all record. When do the seedings come out, does anyone know?
[quote="hock1"]I have a couple things to comment on:
-ClassicHockey: you've made a couple good arguements of why YOU think the teams in this section can't play. But here's some more numbers to prove to you that the top couple teams here can play. Sure, sartell lost to Alex 0-9, but two days before NU beat then ranked Sartell 3-1, sartell tied alex 3-3 in alexandria. You must have forgotten that huh? Here's another one for ya. You said that lourdes is in the list of top class A team's? I'll agree with that. Too bad they just lost to Albert Lea, who lost to Winona, who got beat by NEW ULM. quote]
Sadly, the transitive property doesn't work in sports. If Team A beats Team B, and then Team B beats Team C, this doesn't mean that Team A will automatically beat Team C. Sports simply do not work that way. If, for example, New Ulm had actually beaten both Sartell and Alexandria, then you'd have a solid argument.
-ClassicHockey: you've made a couple good arguements of why YOU think the teams in this section can't play. But here's some more numbers to prove to you that the top couple teams here can play. Sure, sartell lost to Alex 0-9, but two days before NU beat then ranked Sartell 3-1, sartell tied alex 3-3 in alexandria. You must have forgotten that huh? Here's another one for ya. You said that lourdes is in the list of top class A team's? I'll agree with that. Too bad they just lost to Albert Lea, who lost to Winona, who got beat by NEW ULM. quote]
Sadly, the transitive property doesn't work in sports. If Team A beats Team B, and then Team B beats Team C, this doesn't mean that Team A will automatically beat Team C. Sports simply do not work that way. If, for example, New Ulm had actually beaten both Sartell and Alexandria, then you'd have a solid argument.
jpv wrote:I won't argue with that. My whole point in this arguement isn't to say that New Ulm (or any other top team in the sec) can beat anyone because they beat that one team who beat some other top team. I'm just trying to point out that they can skate with the GOOD teams out there. I just wanna point out we're not useless. We can play good hockey.hock1 wrote:I have a couple things to comment on:
-ClassicHockey: you've made a couple good arguements of why YOU think the teams in this section can't play. But here's some more numbers to prove to you that the top couple teams here can play. Sure, sartell lost to Alex 0-9, but two days before NU beat then ranked Sartell 3-1, sartell tied alex 3-3 in alexandria. You must have forgotten that huh? Here's another one for ya. You said that lourdes is in the list of top class A team's? I'll agree with that. Too bad they just lost to Albert Lea, who lost to Winona, who got beat by NEW ULM. quote]
Sadly, the transitive property doesn't work in sports. If Team A beats Team B, and then Team B beats Team C, this doesn't mean that Team A will automatically beat Team C. Sports simply do not work that way. If, for example, New Ulm had actually beaten both Sartell and Alexandria, then you'd have a solid argument.
It's tough to compare New Ulm to anybody because as stated the A beat B and B beat C so A must be better than C argument is so flawed, but with New Ulm that's just about all anyone has to go with, to make matters worse New Ulms toughest opponents probably aren't even from Minnesota.
Here's some food for thought though:
New Ulm 8 Northfield 1, Northfield isn't very good but they lost 5-2 to both Lourdes and Albert Lea and 5-0 to Roseau. In fairness West beat them by 8 and Red Wing by 10, but at least comparable to what New Ulm did to the Raiders
Superior 4 New Ulm 2 (eng); Superior beat Cloquet 5-2, Denfeld 7-2 lost to Duluth East 4-2. Denfeld lost in overtime to Warroad, Hibbing, and Duluth Marshall. Along with 1 goal regulation losses to Virginia and SCC.
#1 Little Falls 9 Faribault 4, New Ulm 8 Faribault 2
Whether New Ulm wins or doesn't win 3A isn't really my issue, what is is that "because New Ulm is in 3A they're not deserving" bothers me though. At the very least New Ulm is comparable to any of the top teams in 1A at the very least and just about every other section as well.
Here's some food for thought though:
New Ulm 8 Northfield 1, Northfield isn't very good but they lost 5-2 to both Lourdes and Albert Lea and 5-0 to Roseau. In fairness West beat them by 8 and Red Wing by 10, but at least comparable to what New Ulm did to the Raiders
Superior 4 New Ulm 2 (eng); Superior beat Cloquet 5-2, Denfeld 7-2 lost to Duluth East 4-2. Denfeld lost in overtime to Warroad, Hibbing, and Duluth Marshall. Along with 1 goal regulation losses to Virginia and SCC.
#1 Little Falls 9 Faribault 4, New Ulm 8 Faribault 2
Whether New Ulm wins or doesn't win 3A isn't really my issue, what is is that "because New Ulm is in 3A they're not deserving" bothers me though. At the very least New Ulm is comparable to any of the top teams in 1A at the very least and just about every other section as well.
Re: sections
The section team coaches rank the teams from one to whatever. They do not rank their own team. The rankings are added up and the total is used to seed the teams. Some sections have a conference call to talk about the teams before they rank them.golfer5 wrote:Can some one explain to me how the bracketing and seeding is decided?
BY whom? and criteria used?
Here is an example of the girls seeding: http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/upload/MSHSL ... d%2009.pdf
That is, without a doubt, the most convincing and truthful argument I have heard for a section 3A team on this whole forum. I love it. No one can argue that. AMEN GOLDY313! AMEN!!!goldy313 wrote:It's tough to compare New Ulm to anybody because as stated the A beat B and B beat C so A must be better than C argument is so flawed, but with New Ulm that's just about all anyone has to go with, to make matters worse New Ulms toughest opponents probably aren't even from Minnesota.
Here's some food for thought though:
New Ulm 8 Northfield 1, Northfield isn't very good but they lost 5-2 to both Lourdes and Albert Lea and 5-0 to Roseau. In fairness West beat them by 8 and Red Wing by 10, but at least comparable to what New Ulm did to the Raiders
Superior 4 New Ulm 2 (eng); Superior beat Cloquet 5-2, Denfeld 7-2 lost to Duluth East 4-2. Denfeld lost in overtime to Warroad, Hibbing, and Duluth Marshall. Along with 1 goal regulation losses to Virginia and SCC.
#1 Little Falls 9 Faribault 4, New Ulm 8 Faribault 2
Whether New Ulm wins or doesn't win 3A isn't really my issue, what is is that "because New Ulm is in 3A they're not deserving" bothers me though. At the very least New Ulm is comparable to any of the top teams in 1A at the very least and just about every other section as well.
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letsgowild
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:07 am
maybe new ulm should crush a team like that, but they still won. hutch should crush a team like prior lake but they lost 4 to 1 so what dose that mean. shoud new ulm be #1 then?Koolice wrote:NU 3 - Dodge County 1, That doesn't help NU much they should crush a team like that. I am going to say that Hutch is the # 1 team in the sec. We will find out next week what the coaches have to say. What day do the seedings come out?
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pipesniper07
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:23 pm
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letsgowild
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:07 am
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iced_out99
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:06 pm
Maybe they can next year. Its always nice to see the top teams play each other at the end of the season, The crowds are great and makes for a crazy time. I heard that the coaches already got together for there seeding meating why do they wait until wed to post the results?iced_out99 wrote:If only NU and Hutch played eachother more than once..then we would know who is #1...if the two teams played now i think it would be one good game...it will interesting to see if the two will play eachother in sections.
3A Seeding
The coaches met unofficialy so they could talk face to face to see what everyone was thinking. I think all seeding should be done face to face when ever possible. I know geography and distance come into play. That way coaches can be questioned about the rational behind seedings if another coach feels cheated. Face to face keeps everyone honest.
1. New Ulm Playing great
2. Hutch Not as good a New Ulm
3. Redwood Good record won the conference
4. Willmar cause they have a tough schedule
5. Windom playing together as of late
6.Litchfield Lost 6 of last 7
7.Marshall Struggling of late
8.Luverne
9. Worthington
10. Fairmont
11. Sleepyeye
Heres my pickes before it comes out.
2. Hutch Not as good a New Ulm
3. Redwood Good record won the conference
4. Willmar cause they have a tough schedule
5. Windom playing together as of late
6.Litchfield Lost 6 of last 7
7.Marshall Struggling of late
8.Luverne
9. Worthington
10. Fairmont
11. Sleepyeye
Heres my pickes before it comes out.
New Ulm (beaten everyone in section they have faced but hutch)
Hutchinson (beat new ulm but lost to wilmar)
Willmar (bad record but beat hutch)
Redwood Valley (good record but lost to windom and luverne)
Marshall (beat windom 2x lost to redwood)
Windom Area (lost to marshall 2x)
Litchfield/D-C (bad record, 0-4 in section play, lost to marshall)
Luverne (lost to windom 3x)
Worthington (beat windom 1 of 3x lost to luverne 3x)
Fairmont (beat sleepy eye and luverne once)
Sleepy Eye Area (hasn't won any section games)
My predictions and explanations... I would be very surprised if the seedings were not very close to this
Hutchinson (beat new ulm but lost to wilmar)
Willmar (bad record but beat hutch)
Redwood Valley (good record but lost to windom and luverne)
Marshall (beat windom 2x lost to redwood)
Windom Area (lost to marshall 2x)
Litchfield/D-C (bad record, 0-4 in section play, lost to marshall)
Luverne (lost to windom 3x)
Worthington (beat windom 1 of 3x lost to luverne 3x)
Fairmont (beat sleepy eye and luverne once)
Sleepy Eye Area (hasn't won any section games)
My predictions and explanations... I would be very surprised if the seedings were not very close to this
I agree with most of this, but personally i think your off on a couple things. First of all. It's not fair to say that hutch is not as good as NU. NU is my #1 because they are hot right now. I still couldn't tell you that one of them would beat the other. Also, i hope coaches aren't looking necessarily at records to rank these teams. I'm not gonna take away from Redwood's great season, but Willmar is better. People need to remember they beat hutch and lost by one to NU. They just have the toughest schedule in the section. Here's how i have it:golfer5 wrote:1. New Ulm Playing great
2. Hutch Not as good a New Ulm
3. Redwood Good record won the conference
4. Willmar cause they have a tough schedule
5. Windom playing together as of late
6.Litchfield Lost 6 of last 7
7.Marshall Struggling of late
8.Luverne
9. Worthington
10. Fairmont
11. Sleepyeye
Heres my pickes before it comes out.
1. New Ulm: one of the hottest teams in the state. Ranked in the top tweny on many sites. Plus not many people realize there goaltending has been solid. Look for him to play well in the playoffs and make a difference
2. Hutchinson: Good team. Also good goaltending. Have struggled defensively some games recently and is why they are losing more than they should be.
3. Willmar: much better team than record shows. No standouts, but a good, well-positioned team. Need some more consistency.
4. Redwood Valley: Good record. Weak schedule main reason. But they are a much improved team this year. They just don't have what the top three teams do: Deep in talent and goaltending is missing.
5:Marshall: Only because they have held there own against Redwood. Need some more scoring.
6. Litchfield: a scrappy, good hitting team. Plus, defending champs. Can't rule them out so early.
7. Luverne: they lean too heavily on paquette to do much damage.
8. Windom: Not as good of team as some think they are. But we'll see on thursday when they play at home against NU
9. Worthington
10. Fairmont
11. Sleepy Eye
Remember folks. Goaltending wins it for teams. Just look at Litch last year. NU and Hutch have the best goaltending this year. That's main reason why they are my two top teams.
hock1 wrote:I agree with most of this, but personally i think your off on a couple things. First of all. It's not fair to say that hutch is not as good as NU. NU is my #1 because they are hot right now. I still couldn't tell you that one of them would beat the other. Also, i hope coaches aren't looking necessarily at records to rank these teams. I'm not gonna take away from Redwood's great season, but Willmar is better. People need to remember they beat hutch and lost by one to NU. They just have the toughest schedule in the section. Here's how i have it:golfer5 wrote:1. New Ulm Playing great
2. Hutch Not as good a New Ulm
3. Redwood Good record won the conference
4. Willmar cause they have a tough schedule
5. Windom playing together as of late
6.Litchfield Lost 6 of last 7
7.Marshall Struggling of late
8.Luverne
9. Worthington
10. Fairmont
11. Sleepyeye
Heres my pickes before it comes out.
1. New Ulm: one of the hottest teams in the state. Ranked in the top tweny on many sites. Plus not many people realize there goaltending has been solid. Look for him to play well in the playoffs and make a difference
2. Hutchinson: Good team. Also good goaltending. Have struggled defensively some games recently and is why they are losing more than they should be.
3. Willmar: much better team than record shows. No standouts, but a good, well-positioned team. Need some more consistency.
4. Redwood Valley: Good record. Weak schedule main reason. But they are a much improved team this year. They just don't have what the top three teams do: Deep in talent and goaltending is missing.
5:Marshall: Only because they have held there own against Redwood. Need some more scoring.
6. Litchfield: a scrappy, good hitting team. Plus, defending champs. Can't rule them out so early.
7. Luverne: they lean too heavily on paquette to do much damage.
8. Windom: Not as good of team as some think they are. But we'll see on thursday when they play at home against NU
9. Worthington
10. Fairmont
11. Sleepy Eye
Remember folks. Goaltending wins it for teams. Just look at Litch last year. NU and Hutch have the best goaltending this year. That's main reason why they are my two top teams.
luverne above windom? they lost to them 3 times