AA Rankings for 2/15

[MrBoDangles]

Karl,

You mention that your next weekly rankings will be the "most important" that you will issue this year. I think "important" is just a tad too strong. Don't ya think the most important are the ones compiled by the coaches involved in the game? I enjoy the effort you put into this stuff, but let's not get too carried away with the value of your effort.

Perhaps. But relative to the other ones I have done, I think it's more significant.

Re: MrBoDangles and the NWSC vs. the rest of MN: I'll try to explain the logic one last time, in as straightforward a way as possible.

Right now, I'd rank their 4 teams this way:
1. Centennial
2. Maple Grove
3. Elk River
4. Blaine

Yes, I think Blaine is better than #4. They will jump to #2 if they beat MG. But this is what the standings say right now, and Blaine is coming off losses to the other two top teams.

As for nonconference schedules...
-ER is obviously a vastly improved team (having just beaten Centennial AND Blaine) from earlier in the season, so we'll throw out everything that's more than a few weeks old. Yet...
-They lost by 2 to DE in a game DE dominated.
-Even more importantly, they lost a close game to AHA very recently. The rankings reflect this.
-AHA lost to Minnetonka by 1 goal. The rankings reflect this.
-AHA lost to Edina by 3 goals. The rankings reflect this.
-Minnetonka lost to DE by 2 goals. The rankings reflect this.

See how one can reasonably assume rankings fall into place this way?

Centennial has some impressive nonconference wins, especially the one over Edina, meaning they should be above the ER team that just beat them. I'd have no complaint with anyone ranking them as high as 4th. Going above that would be difficult, though, because of their losses in the conference and the Moorhead and WBL ties.

MG is having a great season, but the most impressive thing they've done out of the conference is tie Wayzata. That does nothing to help the NWSC's cause.

Blaine does have a very good nonconference win over DE, but they have an equally bad loss to Edina. That's about all the schedule offers.

I hope you can at least see the logic there, even if you disagree with it, and move on.

If it still really bothers you as much as it seems to, issue your own rankings. It's not like I have a monopoly on the business or anything.

What place would Edina and Duluth East be in, in the NWSC (if the were) this year, in your opinion? (They are 1-2-1 against Blaine and Centennial)
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
Blaine and Centennial loose to Elk River and Maple Grove (tough competition) and fall off your map, and on the other hand Duluth East and Edina have worse (Rochester/Hopkins) and can have a string of losses and barely go anywhere.....?

When you post your opinions (rankings) on here you have to expect questions and other opinions.

You are the one that seems "bothered" having to answer straight foward questions.

[karl(east)]

What place would Edina and Duluth East be in, in the NWSC (if the were) this year, in your opinion? (They are 1-2-1 against Blaine and Centennial)
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
Blaine and Centennial loose to Elk River and Maple Grove (tough competition) and fall off your map, and on the other hand Duluth East and Edina have worse (Rochester/Hopkins) and can have a string of losses and barely go anywhere.....?

When you post your opinions (rankings) on here you have to expect questions and other opinions.

You are the one that seems "bothered" having to answer straight foward questions.

I do these because I like the debate they prompt. If I'm getting bothered, it's because I have to repeat things ad nauseam.

You're trying to justify NWSC superiority based on two isolated incidents. But that gets very ugly very quickly. Edina and DE both beat Elk River, which just beat both Blaine and Centennial. Blaine lost to Edina by a larger margin than by which Edina beat Blaine. Now who do we rank higher? If we use this approach, we get into the messes of the transitive property. You can't just focus on those two games.

Yes, East and Edina have comparatively worse losses. But both have had time to recover from them (especially in East's case). Blaine just hasn't. If they beat MG, all else held the same, I'd expect this next week:
4. Centennial
5. Blaine
6. Duluth East (SOS for the other two increases with the Blaine-MG game)

If Blaine doesn't beat MG, they're the 4th-best team in their conference. And there is absolutely no argument right now by which we can say MG or especially ER are better than DE, Tonka, or AHA.

You're also making it sound like there's an even gap between each of the spots in the rankings. There isn't. In fact, I'd say the gap between #1 and #10 is not that much larger than the gap between #10 and #11. I don't consider being ranked #9 in my rankings "falling off the map." That's just not the way they work. Most people seem to get that by now.

OK, I'll play your little game, too. I'll pretend Edina and DE play NWSC schedules, and we'll assume no upsets by the weaker teams.

I'll say Edina goes 2-1-1 vs. DE (2 times) and Cent/Blaine (once each). I feel this is a generous concession. For fun, I'll say 1-0-1 against East, a win over Centennial, and a loss to Blaine, to switch things up.

Meanwhile, after East goes 0-1-1 against Edina, we'll say they get a win over Blaine (that game was dead-even at Blaine, and I'm playing towards .500 in this "game.")

All Maple Grove has going for it in comparison to DE and Edina is a 1-1 tie vs. Wayzata...a team that is 0-4 against the other two. Sorry, I can see no compelling evidence to suggest an upset occurring here. Edina beats MG twice. Out of generosity and East's occasional tendency to play down to their competition, they'll manage a tie in one of the games.

Both teams controlled ER pretty well in their first meetings, and in neither case was the score as close as the game suggested; they were outshot 82-30 between the two. So I can't pick an upset in either second meeting, sorry. You might say ER has improved a lot since then...but if that's so, this happened very abruptly and very recently, and who's to say that this isn't a sign of regression on the parts of Blaine and Centennial instead? It's plausible.

With that, we get this:

Edina 7-2-1
East 4-2-3
Cent. 4-3-2
Blaine 4-4-1
MG 2-5-2
ER 2-7-1

There are 2 games missing here: Blaine vs. MG, which is played this Thursday, and the second DE-Cent. meeting. I didn't want to call this one since they tied their first meeting, and giving it to either team would be a bit unfair. Either way, they're two very even teams, as reflected by the rankings.

Funny. Looks a lot like my rankings. Blaine's a bit higher than they are in the rankings, but (1) those rankings take recent losses into account; and (2) as I explained, a win over MG would vaunt them higher in my rankings, to a place that's actually higher than they would be in this idealized NWSC.

[southernmnscout]

I think these are great rankings as well. Usually people are not going to agree 100% on things.

Do you ever agree with anyone ?????

[MrBoDangles]

I was just looking for:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.


Don't forget they are already 1-2-1.

The DE/ER possible sectional game will be a must see!

[karl(east)]

I was just looking for:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.


Don't forget they are already 1-2-1.

The DE/ER possible sectional game will be a must see!

What was this, then?

Edina 7-2-1
East 4-2-3
Cent. 4-3-2
Blaine 4-4-1
MG 2-5-2
ER 2-7-1

I will say for the third time that I would have no objection to anyone who swapped East and Centennial in this order. And I think I have explained the Blaine situation enough, too, but I can by all means do it again if you would like.

I'm definitely not denying that Elk River might upset DE in sections. I am probably more critical of the Hounds than any other East fan on here, and I recognize the cracks in the wall. But at this point there is no compelling evidence to put ER ahead of DE in a ranking system, and I think most everyone will agree on that.

[MrBoDangles]

I was just looking for:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.


Don't forget they are already 1-2-1.

The DE/ER possible sectional game will be a must see!

What was this, then?

Edina 7-2-1
East 4-2-3
Cent. 4-3-2
Blaine 4-4-1
MG 2-5-2
ER 2-7-1

I will say for the third time that I would have no objection to anyone who swapped East and Centennial in this order. And I think I have explained the Blaine situation enough, too, but I can by all means do it again if you would like.

I'm definitely not denying that Elk River might upset DE in sections. I am probably more critical of the Hounds than any other East fan on here, and I recognize the cracks in the wall. But at this point there is no compelling evidence to put ER ahead of DE in a ranking system, and I think most everyone will agree on that.

I agree no reason to put ER in front of DE.

The 1-2-1 W/L trend against Blaine and Centennial would show most people that they would JUST be normal upper end teams in the NWSC.

Sorry HOP-SCOTCH answers are not understandable! -Common sense is missing!

[karl(east)]

The 1-2-1 W/L trend against Blaine and Centennial would show most people that they would JUST be normal upper end teams in the NWSC.

When have I ever claimed otherwise?

[MrBoDangles]

By having Edina and Duluth always in your top 5 no matter what, and having the top ranked team from the NWSC 7th. THANK YOU!

[karl(east)]

By having Edina and Duluth always in your top 5 no matter what, and having the top ranked team from the NWSC 7th. THANK YOU!

You obviously haven't been following my rankings much. Duluth East was #9 a few weeks ago.

The top team from the NWSC 7th...what, is Centennial no longer in the NWSC? And AHA now is?

I have lost complete track of what you are trying to get at. Everyone else who raises objections seems capable of raising a few points, listening to my counter-arguments, and agreeing to disagree. Some offer their own rankings too, and while I may not agree with them, it at least gives them credibility and shows they're putting some time and effort into what they're doing.

Until you come up with something that (1) makes sense, and (2) has not already been answered to several times over, I am done with this topic.

[MrBoDangles]

7TH LAST WEEK - Ended sounds good!

[scoreboard33]

What place would Edina and Duluth East be in, in the NWSC (if the were) this year, in your opinion? (They are 1-2-1 against Blaine and Centennial)
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
Blaine and Centennial loose to Elk River and Maple Grove (tough competition) and fall off your map, and on the other hand Duluth East and Edina have worse (Rochester/Hopkins) and can have a string of losses and barely go anywhere.....?

When you post your opinions (rankings) on here you have to expect questions and other opinions.

You are the one that seems "bothered" having to answer straight foward questions.

I do these because I like the debate they prompt. If I'm getting bothered, it's because I have to repeat things ad nauseam.

You're trying to justify NWSC superiority based on two isolated incidents. But that gets very ugly very quickly. Edina and DE both beat Elk River, which just beat both Blaine and Centennial. Blaine lost to Edina by a larger margin than by which Edina beat Blaine. Now who do we rank higher? If we use this approach, we get into the messes of the transitive property. You can't just focus on those two games.

Yes, East and Edina have comparatively worse losses. But both have had time to recover from them (especially in East's case). Blaine just hasn't. If they beat MG, all else held the same, I'd expect this next week:
4. Centennial
5. Blaine
6. Duluth East (SOS for the other two increases with the Blaine-MG game)

If Blaine doesn't beat MG, they're the 4th-best team in their conference. And there is absolutely no argument right now by which we can say MG or especially ER are better than DE, Tonka, or AHA.

You're also making it sound like there's an even gap between each of the spots in the rankings. There isn't. In fact, I'd say the gap between #1 and #10 is not that much larger than the gap between #10 and #11. I don't consider being ranked #9 in my rankings "falling off the map." That's just not the way they work. Most people seem to get that by now.

OK, I'll play your little game, too. I'll pretend Edina and DE play NWSC schedules, and we'll assume no upsets by the weaker teams.

I'll say Edina goes 2-1-1 vs. DE (2 times) and Cent/Blaine (once each). I feel this is a generous concession. For fun, I'll say 1-0-1 against East, a win over Centennial, and a loss to Blaine, to switch things up.

Meanwhile, after East goes 0-1-1 against Edina, we'll say they get a win over Blaine (that game was dead-even at Blaine, and I'm playing towards .500 in this "game.")

All Maple Grove has going for it in comparison to DE and Edina is a 1-1 tie vs. Wayzata...a team that is 0-4 against the other two. Sorry, I can see no compelling evidence to suggest an upset occurring here. Edina beats MG twice. Out of generosity and East's occasional tendency to play down to their competition, they'll manage a tie in one of the games.

Both teams controlled ER pretty well in their first meetings, and in neither case was the score as close as the game suggested; they were outshot 82-30 between the two. So I can't pick an upset in either second meeting, sorry. You might say ER has improved a lot since then...but if that's so, this happened very abruptly and very recently, and who's to say that this isn't a sign of regression on the parts of Blaine and Centennial instead? It's plausible.

With that, we get this:

Edina 7-2-1
East 4-2-3
Cent. 4-3-2
Blaine 4-4-1
MG 2-5-2
ER 2-7-1

There are 2 games missing here: Blaine vs. MG, which is played this Thursday, and the second DE-Cent. meeting. I didn't want to call this one since they tied their first meeting, and giving it to either team would be a bit unfair. Either way, they're two very even teams, as reflected by the rankings.

Funny. Looks a lot like my rankings. Blaine's a bit higher than they are in the rankings, but (1) those rankings take recent losses into account; and (2) as I explained, a win over MG would vaunt them higher in my rankings, to a place that's actually higher than they would be in this idealized NWSC.

Ok, against your top 6, Edina is 2-1-0 and lost two Centennial in the middle of playing there worst hockey, with Edina beating EP and Blaine handily, I sat they are number 1, just like Karl(east). Edina has been played teh best hockey in this season of the teams mentioned and a little slump shouldn't do anything to that. I think it is easy to say Edina would be number 1.

DE takes a much more round about way, but it is not hard to put them 2 or 3, but I would not put them behind Blaine.

Mr. BoDangles, you seem to compile stats to your liking, especially combining Edina and DE rcord's versus Blaine and Centennial, but excluding ER. That seems to be the hardest thing to justify on this board.

[MrBoDangles]

What place would Edina and Duluth East be in, in the NWSC (if the were) this year, in your opinion? (They are 1-2-1 against Blaine and Centennial)
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
Blaine and Centennial loose to Elk River and Maple Grove (tough competition) and fall off your map, and on the other hand Duluth East and Edina have worse (Rochester/Hopkins) and can have a string of losses and barely go anywhere.....?

When you post your opinions (rankings) on here you have to expect questions and other opinions.

You are the one that seems "bothered" having to answer straight foward questions.

I do these because I like the debate they prompt. If I'm getting bothered, it's because I have to repeat things ad nauseam.

You're trying to justify NWSC superiority based on two isolated incidents. But that gets very ugly very quickly. Edina and DE both beat Elk River, which just beat both Blaine and Centennial. Blaine lost to Edina by a larger margin than by which Edina beat Blaine. Now who do we rank higher? If we use this approach, we get into the messes of the transitive property. You can't just focus on those two games.

Yes, East and Edina have comparatively worse losses. But both have had time to recover from them (especially in East's case). Blaine just hasn't. If they beat MG, all else held the same, I'd expect this next week:
4. Centennial
5. Blaine
6. Duluth East (SOS for the other two increases with the Blaine-MG game)

If Blaine doesn't beat MG, they're the 4th-best team in their conference. And there is absolutely no argument right now by which we can say MG or especially ER are better than DE, Tonka, or AHA.

You're also making it sound like there's an even gap between each of the spots in the rankings. There isn't. In fact, I'd say the gap between #1 and #10 is not that much larger than the gap between #10 and #11. I don't consider being ranked #9 in my rankings "falling off the map." That's just not the way they work. Most people seem to get that by now.

OK, I'll play your little game, too. I'll pretend Edina and DE play NWSC schedules, and we'll assume no upsets by the weaker teams.

I'll say Edina goes 2-1-1 vs. DE (2 times) and Cent/Blaine (once each). I feel this is a generous concession. For fun, I'll say 1-0-1 against East, a win over Centennial, and a loss to Blaine, to switch things up.

Meanwhile, after East goes 0-1-1 against Edina, we'll say they get a win over Blaine (that game was dead-even at Blaine, and I'm playing towards .500 in this "game.")

All Maple Grove has going for it in comparison to DE and Edina is a 1-1 tie vs. Wayzata...a team that is 0-4 against the other two. Sorry, I can see no compelling evidence to suggest an upset occurring here. Edina beats MG twice. Out of generosity and East's occasional tendency to play down to their competition, they'll manage a tie in one of the games.

Both teams controlled ER pretty well in their first meetings, and in neither case was the score as close as the game suggested; they were outshot 82-30 between the two. So I can't pick an upset in either second meeting, sorry. You might say ER has improved a lot since then...but if that's so, this happened very abruptly and very recently, and who's to say that this isn't a sign of regression on the parts of Blaine and Centennial instead? It's plausible.

With that, we get this:

Edina 7-2-1
East 4-2-3
Cent. 4-3-2
Blaine 4-4-1
MG 2-5-2
ER 2-7-1

There are 2 games missing here: Blaine vs. MG, which is played this Thursday, and the second DE-Cent. meeting. I didn't want to call this one since they tied their first meeting, and giving it to either team would be a bit unfair. Either way, they're two very even teams, as reflected by the rankings.

Funny. Looks a lot like my rankings. Blaine's a bit higher than they are in the rankings, but (1) those rankings take recent losses into account; and (2) as I explained, a win over MG would vaunt them higher in my rankings, to a place that's actually higher than they would be in this idealized NWSC.

Ok, against your top 6, Edina is 2-1-0 and lost two Centennial in the middle of playing there worst hockey, with Edina beating EP and Blaine handily, I sat they are number 1, just like Karl(east). Edina has been played teh best hockey in this season of the teams mentioned and a little slump shouldn't do anything to that. I think it is easy to say Edina would be number 1.

DE takes a much more round about way, but it is not hard to put them 2 or 3, but I would not put them behind Blaine.

Mr. BoDangles, you seem to compile stats to your liking, especially combining Edina and DE rcord's versus Blaine and Centennial, but excluding ER. That seems to be the hardest thing to justify on this board.

Scoreboard33, you might be right, Elk River and Maple Grove are playing great hockey and could top the 2-1-1. These teams do great too against other conferences top 6.

[King of the Pond]

my daily, call out of HShockeywatcher


Classic Lake is a better conference this year

Lets put it this way if these were the matchups who would come out with a better record

Centennial vs Edina (Centennial)
Blaine vs Minnetonka (?)
Maple Grove vs Wayzata (tie)
Elk River vs Hopkins (?)

I'll help you out a bit

Centennial vs Edina (Edina)
Blaine vs Minnetonka (Minnetonka)
Maple Grove vs. Wayzata (Wayzata)
Elk River vs Hopkins (Elk River)

case and point, classic lake is better and if you want to match it up that way, lets take a peak at the lake:

Jefferson vs Centennial (Jefferson)
EP vs Blaine (EP)
Burnsville vs Maple Grove (Burnsville)
Elk River vs Eagan (Elk River)

Exactly how high were you when you posted this?? If you had any brain at all youd know that what was in parentheses was what actually did happen.

[The New One]

Some of you guys are not making this topic as much fun as it used to be or should be. Karl keep up the good work.

[Maple Grove Crimson#1]

I just find it funny that some actually think Burnsville would
beat Maple Grove.

[Roseauverrated]

I just find it funny that you think Maple Grove is good.

[Maple Grove Crimson#1]

I just find it funny that you think Maple Grove is good.

how many times have you seen them play? really

[Lucia4President]

I just find it funny that you think Maple Grove is good.

how many times have you seen them play? really

I haven't seen them play, but some of the results I've been seeing from them are impressive. They still have a long road to travel if they want to get to St. Paul the second weekend in March.

[Maple Grove Crimson#1]

I agree.
it's a very tuff section and should be a blast!

[Roseauverrated]

I see only 1 impressive win on their record.

[Lucia4President]

I see only 1 impressive win on their record.

I didn't say wins, I said results. I was impressed with the ties with Mahtomedi and Elk River, and obviously the win over Centennial.

[Maple Grove Crimson#1]

they also won at Elk River 4-1. the Blaine score was not how the game went and anyone that was at that would tell you that. to say that Maple Grove isnt good is just plain stupid. are they the best team in the state, I wouldn't say that but they are good enough to beat anyone.