What really happened??

[Who else?]

RE: "Sure they can. Read Rule 611(c): If, after warning by the Referee or Linesman, either of the players fail to take his proper position within 5 seconds, the Official shall be entitled to face-off the puck notwithstanding such default."

Then:
By rule and process of progression, if the players are out of position or off-sides (approaching the face-off), then the centers should be tossed and the puck re-dropped... right?

Still would've been more efficient to call a minor don't you think?

[elliott70]

M&G-
A ref can't just decide they want to drop the puck. The rules are VERY CLEAR on this.

WE?-
The only rule that USA Hockey has for shooting the puck out of play requires that the player intended to do it, except for the goalie who can not shoot it out of play. The NHL and NCAA (I think it's new for the NCAA this year) give a minor to any player who shoots the puck out of play regardless of intent.

Rule 609 Delaying the Game
(a) A minor penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who delays the game by deliberately shooting or batting the puck with his stick outside the playing area.

(Note) This penalty shall apply also when a player or goalkeeper deliberately bats or shoots the puck with his stick outside the playing area after a stoppage of play.

(b) A minor penalty shall be imposed on a goalkeeper who shoots the puck directly (nondeflected) outside of the playing area, except that no penalty shall apply if the puck inadvertently leaves the playing area in a location that is not protected by glass or screen.

Sure they can. Read Rule 611(c): If, after warning by the Referee or Linesman, either of the players fail to take his proper position within 5 seconds, the Official shall be entitled to face-off the puck notwithstanding such default.

This rule is in regards when players are on the ice and fail in a timely fashion to line-up for a face-off.

When starting the period or at any whistle or time out when palyers gather at the bench, failure to appear onthe ice to play in a timely manner will be a delay of game an dthen a match penalty on the head coach and a forfeiture.

If the five (or six) skaters were at center ice skating or talking or whatever, then the ref can just drop the puck and the game is on.

[CoachJ]

M&G-
A ref can't just decide they want to drop the puck. The rules are VERY CLEAR on this.

WE?-
The only rule that USA Hockey has for shooting the puck out of play requires that the player intended to do it, except for the goalie who can not shoot it out of play. The NHL and NCAA (I think it's new for the NCAA this year) give a minor to any player who shoots the puck out of play regardless of intent.

Rule 609 Delaying the Game
(a) A minor penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who delays the game by deliberately shooting or batting the puck with his stick outside the playing area.

(Note) This penalty shall apply also when a player or goalkeeper deliberately bats or shoots the puck with his stick outside the playing area after a stoppage of play.

(b) A minor penalty shall be imposed on a goalkeeper who shoots the puck directly (nondeflected) outside of the playing area, except that no penalty shall apply if the puck inadvertently leaves the playing area in a location that is not protected by glass or screen.

Sure they can. Read Rule 611(c): If, after warning by the Referee or Linesman, either of the players fail to take his proper position within 5 seconds, the Official shall be entitled to face-off the puck notwithstanding such default.

This rule is in regards when players are on the ice and fail in a timely fashion to line-up for a face-off.

When starting the period or at any whistle or time out when palyers gather at the bench, failure to appear onthe ice to play in a timely manner will be a delay of game an dthen a match penalty on the head coach and a forfeiture.

If the five (or six) skaters were at center ice skating or talking or whatever, then the ref can just drop the puck and the game is on.

I don't think it was as a big deal since nobody has responded from either team. Kids must have been slow to the faceoff and still got back into position before the other team could score.

[muckandgrind]

M&G-
A ref can't just decide they want to drop the puck. The rules are VERY CLEAR on this.

WE?-
The only rule that USA Hockey has for shooting the puck out of play requires that the player intended to do it, except for the goalie who can not shoot it out of play. The NHL and NCAA (I think it's new for the NCAA this year) give a minor to any player who shoots the puck out of play regardless of intent.

Rule 609 Delaying the Game
(a) A minor penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who delays the game by deliberately shooting or batting the puck with his stick outside the playing area.

(Note) This penalty shall apply also when a player or goalkeeper deliberately bats or shoots the puck with his stick outside the playing area after a stoppage of play.

(b) A minor penalty shall be imposed on a goalkeeper who shoots the puck directly (nondeflected) outside of the playing area, except that no penalty shall apply if the puck inadvertently leaves the playing area in a location that is not protected by glass or screen.

Sure they can. Read Rule 611(c): If, after warning by the Referee or Linesman, either of the players fail to take his proper position within 5 seconds, the Official shall be entitled to face-off the puck notwithstanding such default.

This rule is in regards when players are on the ice and fail in a timely fashion to line-up for a face-off.

When starting the period or at any whistle or time out when palyers gather at the bench, failure to appear onthe ice to play in a timely manner will be a delay of game an dthen a match penalty on the head coach and a forfeiture.

If the five (or six) skaters were at center ice skating or talking or whatever, then the ref can just drop the puck and the game is on.

I guess that was my interpretation. As the OP said: "ref blows whistle - 1 team still huddling around coach"
-
If the players are huddled around the bench, and aren't ready to face it off, then drop the puck.

[muckandgrind]

RE: "Sure they can. Read Rule 611(c): If, after warning by the Referee or Linesman, either of the players fail to take his proper position within 5 seconds, the Official shall be entitled to face-off the puck notwithstanding such default."

Then:
By rule and process of progression, if the players are out of position or off-sides (approaching the face-off), then the centers should be tossed and the puck re-dropped... right?

Still would've been more efficient to call a minor don't you think?

No, it's more efficient to drop the puck instead of blowing the whistle and delaying things even more. If the team is on the ice but delaying to get ready to face it off, drop the puck. That's the rule.

[D6Rocks]

Bigger issue, why weren't the Tartan Parents thrown out after throwing a bottle on the ice and swearing and carrying on for 20 minutes?

I think they are not on here complaining about the goal (yes it was a 5 on 0 when the puck was dropped, goalie got to the net in time, but Burnsville Scored) because they should be embarrassed about their behavior.

It was a good game until then.

[wheels]

Anyone who reads this post would soon see why no one should ever take anything on this forum seriously.

The replys to this show that not only do the people who say "just drop the puck" have little or no experience in hockey, they also show that they have no athletic competitive experience in any sport other than D league slow pitch.

No true competitor wants to win on an empty net goal allowed by an official that was clearly in over his head in a Championship game.

The game was 0-0 at the time and it was coming out of a period break. The goalie wasn't even in the net. Now that is stupid.

[muckandgrind]

Anyone who reads this post would soon see why no one should ever take anything on this forum seriously.

The replys to this show that not only do the people who say "just drop the puck" have little or no experience in hockey, they also show that they have no athletic competitive experience in any sport other than D league slow pitch.

No true competitor wants to win on an empty net goal allowed by an official that was clearly in over his head in a Championship game.

The game was 0-0 at the time and it was coming out of a period break. The goalie wasn't even in the net. Now that is stupid.

Were you there? If so, maybe you can shed some light on the topic, but according to what the OP said and what the rule book says, the refs did the right thing by dropping the puck.

Did the refs tell the team to get out there and get ready multiple times? If so, than the fault lies clearly with the team not ready.

[QuackerTracker]

Here is the rule on face-off. A ref can not drop the puck without players in position:

Rule 611 Face-Offs

(a) The puck shall be “faced-off” by the Referee or the Linesman
dropping the puck on the ice between the sticks of the players “facing-off.” Players facing-off will stand squarely facing their opponents’ end of the rink approximately one stick length apart with the blade of their sticks touching the ice. The attacking team player shall be the first player to place his stick on the ice. For face-offs along the center red line, the visiting team player shall place his stick on the ice first.

When the face-off takes place at any of the end face-off spots, the players taking part shall be stationary and stand squarely facing their opponents’ end of the rink and clear of the ice markings. The sticks of both players facing-off shall have the blade on the ice in contact with the nearest white area of the face-off spot and clear of the red center area of the spot.

No other player shall be allowed to enter the face-off circle or come within 15 feet of the players facing-off the puck, and players other than the player facing off must stand on-side on all face-offs.

If a player, other than the player facing off, fails to maintain his proper position, the center of his team shall be ejected from the face-off.

At the conclusion of the line change procedure, the Official conducting the face-off shall blow his whistle. This will signal each team that they have no more than five seconds to line up for the ensuing face-off. Prior to the conclusion of five seconds, the Official shall conduct a proper face-off. If any player other than the players facing off fails to maintain a proper position, the center of that team shall be ejected from the face-off.

A player can not be in or maintaining proper positioning if they are at the bench. This is a sad situation and the officials acted poorly. Unfortunatly it makes all officials look bad when they act like this.

You can not be in proper position for the face-off

[inthestands]

For those bringing rules into play, let's not forget about the "refusing to start play" side of things.

Once that is completed, we have to remember that each situation on the ice is different, and the official doing the game has some lattitude with decision making depending on the game at hand.

Not being there it's hard to comment, as it should be for anyone else not in attendance. But why let facts get in the way of a message board discussion.

If the official drops the puck, the teams need to be ready to play. That is their responsibility. Good judgement and rules knowlege is the officials responsibility.

[Snowmass]

How tough is it to have your little time out, huddle up, make plan and get back in position for face off in timely fashion? TO is 1 minue, not 65 secs, or 90 secs, or 73 secs etc....

[muckandgrind]

Here is the rule on face-off. A ref can not drop the puck without players in position:

Rule 611 Face-Offs

(a) The puck shall be “faced-off” by the Referee or the Linesman
dropping the puck on the ice between the sticks of the players “facing-off.” Players facing-off will stand squarely facing their opponents’ end of the rink approximately one stick length apart with the blade of their sticks touching the ice. The attacking team player shall be the first player to place his stick on the ice. For face-offs along the center red line, the visiting team player shall place his stick on the ice first.

When the face-off takes place at any of the end face-off spots, the players taking part shall be stationary and stand squarely facing their opponents’ end of the rink and clear of the ice markings. The sticks of both players facing-off shall have the blade on the ice in contact with the nearest white area of the face-off spot and clear of the red center area of the spot.

No other player shall be allowed to enter the face-off circle or come within 15 feet of the players facing-off the puck, and players other than the player facing off must stand on-side on all face-offs.

If a player, other than the player facing off, fails to maintain his proper position, the center of his team shall be ejected from the face-off.

At the conclusion of the line change procedure, the Official conducting the face-off shall blow his whistle. This will signal each team that they have no more than five seconds to line up for the ensuing face-off. Prior to the conclusion of five seconds, the Official shall conduct a proper face-off. If any player other than the players facing off fails to maintain a proper position, the center of that team shall be ejected from the face-off.

A player can not be in or maintaining proper positioning if they are at the bench. This is a sad situation and the officials acted poorly. Unfortunatly it makes all officials look bad when they act like this.

You can not be in proper position for the face-off

Read paragraph c of the same rule:

Rule 611(c): If, after warning by the Referee or Linesman, either of the players fail to take his proper position within 5 seconds, the Official shall be entitled to face-off the puck notwithstanding such default.

How I read that is if the players(s) aren't ready to face off after proper warning, the ref can drop the puck.

I would love to get some more insight from someone who was actually there, because if my hunch is correct, the refs probably gave the coach more time than people are speculating and probably gave him more than a few verbal warnings to start the period.

[smsports]

OK everybody this is what happened, I was there………..
0-0 start of the third period, championship game. The ref blew the whistle once at the end of the break for the start of the third period and the Tartan coach was still talking. 5 seconds later the ref he dropped the puck without any warning. Burnsville went down on a 5 on 0. The Tartan goalie was in the net but he was not ready, that is to say his mask was on top of his head and his left glove was off. Burnsville scored. In addition, the entire Tartan team was on the ice, huddled around the coach. NOT sitting on the bench. Would that be a too many men on the ice penalty? Or would a delay of game penalty been the correct call? Neither, according to the ref that dropped the puck without getting signal from the Tartan goalie that he was ready. Is that not a requirement before dropping the puck?

The ref could have, and should have called a penalty, which one, I do not know, nor did it matter. By dropping the puck right away he put the goalie in harms way. Is it the refs responsibility to make sure the goalies are ready? And if not ready, maybe delay of game would have been the right call. Never mind that the refs gave Burnsville the goal on a silver platter. The issue is the ref made a dangerous call that could have been detrimental to that goalie.

One notable mention: There was ONE Tartan parent that threw a bottle of Coke on the ice, this is not acceptable. However, the next move came from a Burnsville player that intentionally shot a puck from their zone over the glass, directly at the entire group of Tartan parents that were at the top of the stands, on the far end of the arena. A 70 year old Grandpa deflected the puck, just a bruise. I guess the Burnsville player was getting his point across but that too was a very dangerous move. Should that have been a penalty? I am guessing that the pop bottle incident AND the intentional shot puck into the stands would NEVER have happened had the refs not DROPPED THE PUCK. The real issue is safety.

[D6Rocks]

Hmm, the issue is safety???

Has the idiot who threw the bottle been talked to by anyone?
He should never be allowed to enter a rink again.

[iwearmysunglassesatnight]

However, the next move came from a Burnsville player that intentionally shot a puck from their zone over the glass, directly at the entire group of Tartan parents that were at the top of the stands, on the far end of the arena. A 70 year old Grandpa deflected the puck, just a bruise. I guess the Burnsville player was getting his point across but that too was a very dangerous move. Should that have been a penalty?

Was the grandparent a former goalie or just someone going after a errant puck?

[GoldenBear]

All the goalie had to do was move the net when he saw the 5 on 0 coming. A delay of game penalty which would have been the right call to begin with. And then no bottle of coke and no grandpa playing goalie in crowd would have happened. So easy.

[smsports]

Grandpa was a former player but not goalie, defense. He was playing defense in the stands so the two Grandma's behind him did not get nailed in the face. He was pretty proud of himself but he did throw the puck back to the ref.

[dump and chase]

how can you say that a player intentionally shot a puck a tartan fans? did he point at them before he shot the puck with the idea of hurting some grandparents in the croud.. give me a break

[muckandgrind]

It sounds like the problem is not with the ref who dropped the puck, but with the Tartan coach for thumbing his nose at the ref and not getting his team ready to play, the fans for throwing objects on the ice, and the player for intentionally shooting the puck in the stands.

[Bronc]

how can you say that a player intentionally shot a puck a tartan fans? did he point at them before he shot the puck with the idea of hurting some grandparents in the croud.. give me a break

Sounds like everyone from the Refs, Fans, Coaches, Parents and Players lost control and luckily no one got significantly hurt.

It also sounds like everyone is in so much denial that they did anything wrong or trying to justify actiing inappropriately if others acted wrong.

A mess all the way around and looks like plenty of blame to go around on all sides (that is if people are willing to look in the mirror).

I am glad a quick thinking grandfather was there irregardless if the puck was shot intent to injure or not.

[a1puck]

Is it the refs responsibility to make sure the goalies are ready?

I don't think so... I have heard (not sure) that the ref is really checking with the goal judges on each end of the ice...and then with the clock guy. It just has become habit....look north, then south, then at the clock guy... drop the puck.

[inthestands]

Let's face a few things.

If we had 10 different people that were at the game, we'd have at least 7 different views of what happenend and why.

Referees give a courtesy wave to the goalies, and when goal judges are used, they need to give them a sign they are ready to go. The time keeping is self explanatory.

Lastly no matter what anyone sees or says here, there will always be someone to argue a different side of things wether they know anything about it or not.

[D6Rocks]

there is only one thing that cannot be argued.
A Tartan Parent (fan) threw an object on the ice.
You can try to deflect attention to a 14 year old, or a bad ref or whatever.
The guy is an idiot.


The rest of the story is a funny tale that we will remember forever.

"Remember when the ref dropped the puck when no one was there. Didn't matter we came back and won."