Minnesota HS players not producing at the D1 level anymore??

[starmvp]

One of the reasons the Mr. Hockey sample is skewed is because of age. (Another that was mentioned is that some of these guys are defensemen.)

Bemidji State went to the Final Four last year with several players that turned 23 and 24 during the college season. Every now and then you can find a 25 year old college player.

Mr. Hockey is 18 years old and turns 19 in his freshman year. (These players aren't going the Junior-start-college-at-20 route.) It isn't like the days of Tim Harrer, Aaron Broten, and Pat Micheletti when a guy can tear up the WCHA at 18. To play and get by at that level at 18 means you are an exceptional player.

I believe nobody has used the name "KASTO"!!! You brought up the "highly touted" players who went to the U but missed out on quite a few top end players from smaller schools (UND is not one but others) that are contributing... Sexton (Apple Valley) had a great college career for Bowling green, Festler looks good, Kasto is unreal up at UND and those are just a few. Yes, Jr's is the way to go for most but like I wrote in another page somewhere... "Do you think Ness would have gone to Jr's to play for the U if UND was offering him a scholarship out of hs?" Alot of it has to do with the rush from HS to college instead of mentally being ready for the game. Alot of ego hurts kids, I saw first hand for a certain Eastview grad who got drafted by Buffalo and went to UND and doesnt play much....

Who is KASTO? Do you mean Kristo!

Settle I'm sure he went Kristo

[breakout]

One of the reasons the Mr. Hockey sample is skewed is because of age. (Another that was mentioned is that some of these guys are defensemen.)

Bemidji State went to the Final Four last year with several players that turned 23 and 24 during the college season. Every now and then you can find a 25 year old college player.

Mr. Hockey is 18 years old and turns 19 in his freshman year. (These players aren't going the Junior-start-college-at-20 route.) It isn't like the days of Tim Harrer, Aaron Broten, and Pat Micheletti when a guy can tear up the WCHA at 18. To play and get by at that level at 18 means you are an exceptional player.

You bring up some good points.

I was reading that most of Bemidji State's players have played 150 Jr. games.

Defense (the most difficult position in hockey ..... sorry goalies):

Ryan McDonah: This Mr. Hockey has a bright future. Stud defensemen for the Badgers. I am guessing he will leave after this season for the NHL. Hockey's Future predicts that he could be on the number one D set of an NHL team someday.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/ryan_mcdonagh

Nick Leddy: Starts for the Gophers as an 18 year old. He has 5 points and shares the team plus minus lead with Budish who is another 18 year old Gopher freshman. Both are at + 7. Leddy has done that after missing one third of the season due to injury. He is listed as one of the top Wild prospects.

Aaron Ness: It's tough coming into college hockey at 18 and playing D at 5'9" 165lbs as did Ness in his Freshman year. As O-town points out, college players can be up to 25 years of age. Aaron is an exceptional skater and has very good offensive instincts. The points are starting to come. If he doesn't turn pro early, he will be very good for the Gophers in the next two years.

For you Nipe6,

Brian Lee: He was very good for the Sue. He is making a nice living in the NHL. I believe he got some Jr. experience prior to going to college.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdis ... ?pid=83000

[warriors41]

One of the reasons the Mr. Hockey sample is skewed is because of age. (Another that was mentioned is that some of these guys are defensemen.)

Bemidji State went to the Final Four last year with several players that turned 23 and 24 during the college season. Every now and then you can find a 25 year old college player.

Mr. Hockey is 18 years old and turns 19 in his freshman year. (These players aren't going the Junior-start-college-at-20 route.) It isn't like the days of Tim Harrer, Aaron Broten, and Pat Micheletti when a guy can tear up the WCHA at 18. To play and get by at that level at 18 means you are an exceptional player.

You bring up some good points.

I was reading that most of Bemidji State's players have played 150 Jr. games.

Defense (the most difficult position in hockey ..... sorry goalies):

Ryan McDonah: This Mr. Hockey has a bright future. Stud defensemen for the Badgers. I am guessing he will leave after this season for the NHL. Hockey's Future predicts that he could be on the number one D set of an NHL team someday.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/ryan_mcdonagh

Nick Leddy: Starts for the Gophers as an 18 year old. He has 5 points and shares the team plus minus lead with Budish who is another 18 year old Gopher freshman. Both are at + 7. Leddy has done that after missing one third of the season due to injury. He is listed as one of the top Wild prospects.

Aaron Ness: It's tough coming into college hockey at 18 and playing D at 5'9" 165lbs as did Ness in his Freshman year. As O-town points out, college players can be up to 25 years of age. Aaron is an exceptional skater and has very good offensive instincts. The points are starting to come. If he doesn't turn pro early, he will be very good for the Gophers in the next two years.

For you Nipe6,

Brian Lee: He was very good for the Sue. He is making a nice living in the NHL. I believe he got some Jr. experience prior to going to college.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdis ... ?pid=83000

I'm not sure about other colleges but what you said about Bemidji State is surely true. That is how they are able to compete. They recruit older kids from junior leagues because they are yet well enough established to get the top recruits from high school. They do great tapping into the Canadian market for players, though.

[hshckfan08]

Well there's one school that's not disappointing... Duluth Marshall's Jack Connolly and Rob Bordson are tearin' it up at UMD this season.

- Jack is tied for 3rd in the entire nation in scoring with 38 points (16g, 22a)

- Rob Bordson is tied for 13th with 33 points (7g, 26a) and is third in the nation in assists.

And don't forget about Jack's brother Chris at BU who is 3rd on the team in points with 18. Looks like Sandy is doing some good recruiting over at UMD.

[breakout]

Well there's one school that's not disappointing... Duluth Marshall's Jack Connolly and Rob Bordson are tearin' it up at UMD this season.

- Jack is tied for 3rd in the entire nation in scoring with 38 points (16g, 22a)

- Rob Bordson is tied for 13th with 33 points (7g, 26a) and is third in the nation in assists.

And don't forget about Jack's brother Chris at BU who is 3rd on the team in points with 18. Looks like Sandy is doing some good recruiting over at UMD.

Congrats to those lads. Good to see local boys sticking around.

Interesting you mention Sandelin. Two years ago he was almost out of a job after several years of mediocrity. Amazing how opinions change.

[east hockey]

Well there's one school that's not disappointing... Duluth Marshall's Jack Connolly and Rob Bordson are tearin' it up at UMD this season.

- Jack is tied for 3rd in the entire nation in scoring with 38 points (16g, 22a)

- Rob Bordson is tied for 13th with 33 points (7g, 26a) and is third in the nation in assists.

And don't forget about Jack's brother Chris at BU who is 3rd on the team in points with 18. Looks like Sandy is doing some good recruiting over at UMD.

Congrats to those lads. Good to see local boys sticking around.

Interesting you mention Sandelin. Two years ago he was almost out of a job after several years of mediocrity. Amazing how opinions change.

All it took was winning the WCHA Final Five.

Lee

[breakout]

Well there's one school that's not disappointing... Duluth Marshall's Jack Connolly and Rob Bordson are tearin' it up at UMD this season.

- Jack is tied for 3rd in the entire nation in scoring with 38 points (16g, 22a)

- Rob Bordson is tied for 13th with 33 points (7g, 26a) and is third in the nation in assists.

And don't forget about Jack's brother Chris at BU who is 3rd on the team in points with 18. Looks like Sandy is doing some good recruiting over at UMD.

Congrats to those lads. Good to see local boys sticking around.

Interesting you mention Sandelin. Two years ago he was almost out of a job after several years of mediocrity. Amazing how opinions change.

All it took was winning the WCHA Final Five.

Lee

Everyone loves a winner ........ and a shut down goalie!

Scott Sandelin is a good guy. I am happy for him.

[hshckfan08]

Congrats to those lads. Good to see local boys sticking around.

Interesting you mention Sandelin. Two years ago he was almost out of a job after several years of mediocrity. Amazing how opinions change.

All it took was winning the WCHA Final Five.

Lee

Everyone loves a winner ........ and a shut down goalie!

Scott Sandelin is a good guy. I am happy for him.

To be honest, I still don't like Sandelin. But he has obviously done a nice job the last few years. Hopefully he keeps things rolling with the new arena.

[Slap Shot]

I think we need to look beyond the Mr. Hockey winner to truly evaluate what MN is putting out into Div and beyond. This article is 1 year old, but it's recent enough regarding current seasons:

http://www.letsplayhockey.com/971kurtt.html

Professional Hockey
Total Minnesotans: 181
National Hockey League: 41

2008 NHL Draft
Total Minnesotans: 11

NHL Cental Scouting Rankings for 2009 Draft
Total Minnesotans: 24
Skaters: 22
Goaltenders 2

College Hockey
Total Minnesotans: 887
Division I: 332
Men: 200
Women: 132
Division III: 555
Men: 305
Women: 253

Division I Commitments
Total Minnesotans: 83
Men: 67
Women: 16

Junior Hockey
Total Minnesotans: 308

Just Minnesota College Products
Total: 42
National Hockey League: 13
American Hockey League: 10
East Coast Hockey League: 9
Central Hockey League: 3
International Hockey League: 2
European leagues: 5

Currently in Div I you have guys like Connolly, Polacek, Bordson, VandeVelde, Braun, Bergland among others performing well this year. For more recent pros there are Martin, Ballard, Leopold, Oshie, Stoa, Johnson, Backes, Goligowski, Okposo, Wheeler, Parise and Smaby, and I'm probably missing others. Also strong performances were made by several MN kids from the recent Gold medal U20 team.

Also keep in mind that even a place such as MN is going to have peaks and valleys with respect to the talent coming out of the state. The "OMG! BST PLAYRZ EVAH!!!" aren't going to happen every single year. Also the importance placed on practice vs. games at lower levels has returned to several key youth programs withing the state. Given all that any talk of a demise in MN hockey has been greatly exaggerated.

[ACTUALFORMERPLAYER]

Minnesotans are definately producing. Islanders fans are calling Okposo their best player. Parise is an All-Star. Mueller is a big part of the Ducks resurgence. Langenbruner is wearing the C for Team USA. Minnesotans are clearly producing.

Your lists only say Minnesotans. I think we all know Minnesota is producing lots of great hockey players. The question people are always asking is what is the best path to take to get there?

To me the path is not the issue. The paths that the current crop of Minnesotans in the NHL took are very diverse. It is more about the individual than program. The cream will rise to the top. Sorry to tell some of you parents this but all the money you spend on your kid on camps and AAA teams might not be enough if you gave them bad DNA.

Okposo - Shattuck
Parise- Shattuck
E. Johnson USNDT
Keith Ballard USNDT
Peter Mueller USNDT (? i think)
Langenbruner - Canadien Major Junior
Byfuglien - Canadien Major Junior
Blake Wheeler -USHL
David Backes - finished high school
Paul Martin- finished high school
Jason Blake finished high school
Brandon Bochenski finished high school
Matt Cullen finished high school

I don't remember
Alex Goligoski ?
Tom Gilbert ?
Jordan Leopold
there are others

[breakout]

Minnesotans are definately producing. Islanders fans are calling Okposo their best player. Parise is an All-Star. Mueller is a big part of the Ducks resurgence. Langenbruner is wearing the C for Team USA. Minnesotans are clearly producing.

Your lists only say Minnesotans. I think we all know Minnesota is producing lots of great hockey players. The question people are always asking is what is the best path to take to get there?

To me the path is not the issue. The paths that the current crop of Minnesotans in the NHL took are very diverse. It is more about the individual than program. The cream will rise to the top. Sorry to tell some of you parents this but all the money you spend on your kid on camps and AAA teams might not be enough if you gave them bad DNA.

Okposo - Shattuck
Parise- Shattuck
E. Johnson USNDT
Keith Ballard USNDT
Peter Mueller USNDT (? i think)
Langenbruner - Canadien Major Junior
Byfuglien - Canadien Major Junior
Blake Wheeler -USHL
David Backes - finished high school
Paul Martin- finished high school
Jason Blake finished high school
Brandon Bochenski finished high school
Matt Cullen finished high school

I don't remember
Alex Goligoski ?
Tom Gilbert ?
Jordan Leopold
there are others

I believe Goligoski finished high school in G.R. and Leopold was definitely NTDP ....... two years.

Looks like Goligoski did an after stint in USHL.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdis ... ?pid=72455

Nice DNA shot!

[hshockeyfan53]

Is it just me...Or does it seem like many of the players that are really hyped up playing high school hockey are just not puting up the numbers they used to? It seems like the hockey Mr. hockey winner to actually put together a decent college career and move on to a succesful pro career is Paul Martin. Not only the mr hockey winners, but along with many other players

Ya, its a completely different level and playing a year or 2 of juniors is no longer realistic anymore if your a "stud". But why do you think that is? Or am I just completely wrong with my assessment?

Yeah you are right they aren't producing at the DI level anymore, they're producing at the NHL level!!

[nipe 6]

Is it just me...Or does it seem like many of the players that are really hyped up playing high school hockey are just not puting up the numbers they used to? It seems like the hockey Mr. hockey winner to actually put together a decent college career and move on to a succesful pro career is Paul Martin. Not only the mr hockey winners, but along with many other players

Ya, its a completely different level and playing a year or 2 of juniors is no longer realistic anymore if your a "stud". But why do you think that is? Or am I just completely wrong with my assessment?

Yeah you are right they aren't producing at the DI level anymore, they're producing at the NHL level!!

Oh really? Well it seems like all the players listed from Minnesota producing in the NHL from the 2000's didnt play high school hockey and either went to juniors or Ann Arbour.

[Slap Shot]

Oh really? Well it seems like all the players listed from Minnesota producing in the NHL from the 2000's didnt play high school hockey and either went to juniors or Ann Arbour.

That wasn't the original premise of your thread. Regardless, most of them did play some H.S., even if a few did leave early.

[nipe 6]

Oh really? Well it seems like all the players listed from Minnesota producing in the NHL from the 2000's didnt play high school hockey and either went to juniors or Ann Arbour.

That wasn't the original premise of your thread. Regardless, most of them did play some H.S., even if a few did leave early.

Um... read the topic its exactly what the premise of my thread is

[nipe 6]

Oh really? Well it seems like all the players listed from Minnesota producing in the NHL from the 2000's didnt play high school hockey and either went to juniors or Ann Arbour.

That wasn't the original premise of your thread. Regardless, most of them did play some H.S., even if a few did leave early.

Um...MN High school players IS the premise of my thread. And if you read the opening part I am talking about people that stuck around their whole high school career.

[salol44]

Or am I just completely wrong with my assessment?

No you're not completely wrong but you are very close. Notice that almost everyone on this topic has disagreed with you?

[nipe 6]

SA maybe you should reread all the responses....

[drop the puck]

More D1 schools now than ever, there should be more Minnesotans playing since there are more schools.

Only 41 Minnesotans in the NHL, from the state of Hockey? The total American born players in the NHL hovers around 25% or about 150 - 160. Not bad since is double what was playing say 10 years ago, but not yet dominating either.

The 2012 US Olympic team will now field just 4 Minnesota born/raised players with the injury of Paul Martin. Not a dominating stat either.

The number of Minnesota goalies in the professional ranks is even more sad. The Wilds back-up goal tender was from the hot bed of hockey Kazakhstan. Drafted by the Wild in 2004. Now that is scouting.

[breakout]

More D1 schools now than ever, there should be more Minnesotans playing since there are more schools.

Only 41 Minnesotans in the NHL, from the state of Hockey? The total American born players in the NHL hovers around 25% or about 150 - 160. Not bad since is double what was playing say 10 years ago, but not yet dominating either.

The 2012 US Olympic team will now field just 4 Minnesota born/raised players with the injury of Paul Martin. Not a dominating stat either.

The number of Minnesota goalies in the professional ranks is even more sad. The Wilds back-up goal tender was from the hot bed of hockey Kazakhstan. Drafted by the Wild in 2004. Now that is scouting.

Notice how goalies are treated in youth hockey. There is minimal teaching due to lack of expertise and experience by the vast majority of our coaches. You would think we could find a better way to develop the most important position on the team without the parents having to spend a fortune on outside training.

[Slap Shot]

Um... read the topic its exactly what the premise of my thread is

Just stop while you are behind. Your major points in the two posts in question do not matchup.

SA maybe you should reread all the responses....

I have and you continue to ignore post after post - with stat after stat - that completely discredits your opinion on the matter. The FACTS are MN dominates college hockey and as a percentage of U.S. born players relative to population dominates the NHL.

[nipe 6]

Um... read the topic its exactly what the premise of my thread is

Just stop while you are behind. Your major points in the two posts in question do not matchup.

SA maybe you should reread all the responses....

I have and you continue to ignore post after post - with stat after stat - that completely discredits your opinion on the matter. The FACTS are MN dominates college hockey and as a percentage of U.S. born players relative to population dominates the NHL.

I'm not ignoring them my man. The majority that are actually dominating left high school to advance their skills. Ya there are some that stayed and are doing well, but the number of players that stayed for high school till their senior year, the numbers are down compared to the 80's and 90's for the numbers of quality players at the next level. And I feel that alot of the posts for people that actually researched the topic are backing it up my way.