Wisconsin Fire

[greybeard58]

The answer is that the Affiliate agreement Minn has with USA Hockey grants them governance for the geographic area of Minnesota. If the others grow they grow, but no USA Hockey registered team will play them if they are not registered.
I asked a question to you earlier, what have you done since coaching your son to actively make changes to then MAHA now Mn Hockey besides making comments here?
Yes this America with free choice; some choose to pack up and look for greener pastures, others choose stay and try to make changes that improve for the best of all and some choose to do nothing.
Besides all the numbers showing just how well the Mn model has worked at the youth/girls level, when the Chicago Showcase was still running all other states would send their top players while Minnesota would only send the players who did not have D I scholarships and usually either won it or placed second.

Yes there is a lot of money spent during the summer,maybe the name "checkbook hockey" is well deserved.

[phil mccracken]

I am confused more then normal, is Minnesota Hockey trying to stop kids from playing with the Fire? I hear rumblings about a punishment or limit of playing level upon the players return to MN association hockey. Is that fact? If so can someone provide a link or actual wording? thanks

[Quasar]

The answer is that the Affiliate agreement Minn has with USA Hockey grants them governance for the geographic area of Minnesota. If the others grow they grow, but no USA Hockey registered team will play them if they are not registered.
I asked a question to you earlier, what have you done since coaching your son to actively make changes to then MAHA now Mn Hockey besides making comments here?
Yes this America with free choice; some choose to pack up and look for greener pastures, others choose stay and try to make changes that improve for the best of all and some choose to do nothing.
Besides all the numbers showing just how well the Mn model has worked at the youth/girls level, when the Chicago Showcase was still running all other states would send their top players while Minnesota would only send the players who did not have D I scholarships and usually either won it or placed second.

Yes there is a lot of money spent during the summer,maybe the name "checkbook hockey" is well deserved.

The answer to your question .. as you well know, is Nothing.
I am well past 70 years of age, I am not interested in redesigning Minnesota Hockey. I just have a lot of time on my hands, and I'm interested.

I also know that six other guys with nothing better to do constitutes most of the posters on this forum. So the reality is none of us is going to make a big difference one way or the other.

That doesn't mean we can't have a civil discussion ..

I just think that "Check Book" hockey. (Quite a insensitive term by the way) has a momentum all it's own. I realize that no one from Minnesota Hockey can even conceive of the fact that it might be replaced by anything else.

But I suppose anything is possible...

I for one would not like to see that happen. As you know, my experience with Minnesota Hockey was a positive one.

I am not advocating anything.. I am just asking questions.

[O-townClown]

What happens in the next 5 years when they are up to Bantam, and there are the Icemen, the legacy, the Raging Bulls etc etc. They will then have their own league.

I can assure you that if a group of a half-dozen or so organizations plan a secession from Minnesota Hockey the collective response of the board would be, "let 'em."

[Quasar]

I am confused more then normal, is Minnesota Hockey trying to stop kids from playing with the Fire? I hear rumblings about a punishment or limit of playing level upon the players return to MN association hockey. Is that fact? If so can someone provide a link or actual wording? thanks

I don't know the answer to your question, but would like to. I think is has to do with the rating system, and the fact that neither Wisconsin, or Minnesota recognizes them.

[Quasar]

What happens in the next 5 years when they are up to Bantam, and there are the Icemen, the legacy, the Raging Bulls etc etc. They will then have their own league.

I can assure you that if a group of a half-dozen or so organizations plan a secession from Minnesota Hockey the collective response of the board would be, "let 'em."

I'm sure your right !!!!

I also know that money talks.......

[Quasar]

[

quote="greybeard58"]The answer is that the Affiliate agreement Minn has with USA Hockey grants them governance for the geographic area of Minnesota. If the others grow they grow, but no USA Hockey registered team will play them if they are not registered.

USA Hockey is a business like any other.. I can assure you that the tail will not wag the dog forever!1

[greybeard58]

Phil,
I will try and answer your question. First USA Hockey recognizes one governing per state or a geographical area and in this case it is Mn Hockey for Minnesota and WAHA for Wisconsin. Both Mn Hockey and WAHA have registration rules along with the ones from USA Hockey. Mn Hockey also requires a waiver for players to play for a team other than their home association. For years WAHA chose not to honor the residency requirements of Mn Hockey and allowed an open border so to speak. USA Hockey has an 80-20 requirement that means 80% of the players must come from the USA District that they are registered in and if not the team must play a majority of their home games in the District where they are registered. The Fire never came close on the 80-20 for players from Wisconsin and no mater if they bought the ice for scrimmages they were always listed as the visitor.
Some in the group did not follow some registration rules for a couple of teams and they got caught by WAHA then the former Registrar passed away and other people in power retired. WAHA was put on the spot and was forced to act by the Central District of USA Hockey. For years Minn has allowed Wisconsin teams to play in Mn Hockey leagues.

With WAHA being put on the spot by the fire and with a change in the governing membership of WAHA; WAHA finally chose to respect the residency requirements of Minnesota and the inter state waiver was developed which Minn has had with North and South Dakota and Iowa. This waiver allows any Minnesota resident player to waiver to another state that offers a Tier I program, the problem for the fire is they are a Tier II level program, now as to current players that were registered with the fire last year I would check with your District Director if there is a Grandfather clause concerning them. The actual wording should be on the Mn Hockey site.

[scoreandscoreoften]

I am confused more then normal, is Minnesota Hockey trying to stop kids from playing with the Fire? I hear rumblings about a punishment or limit of playing level upon the players return to MN association hockey. Is that fact? If so can someone provide a link or actual wording? thanks

You may find the answer in MH wavier policy, and residency rule. From what I understand, the Fire is now classified "unclassified". A level of hockey that MH offers to their members, not a level higher than MH offers. Hence players would need a wavier from the district in which they live. If their granted a wavier out of their home assoc. (maybe, maybe not) and later come back, they wouldn't be allowed to play at the A level for one year.

[Task Force 34]

It is truly amazing that WAHA and MN hockey have an axe to grind with the Fire Organization for incidents that happened 2+ years ago. In this case you are talking about less than 40 players out of 60,000 plus in the MN Hockey Organization.

An Interstate Transfer Protocol Agreement - really?
For less than a dozen kids?

I'm sure the people who pay their dues to MN Hockey will rest easy knowing their Board has conspired with WAHA to prevent these kids from playing at a level they have worked so hard to achieve.

Let the lawsuits begin....

[phil mccracken]

Phil,
Tier II level program, now as to current players that were registered with the fire last year I would check with your District Director if there is a Grandfather clause concerning them. The actual wording should be on the Mn Hockey site.

i can't find the wording, sorry. So each district is at their own discrection to penalize a youth player or not? Well d6 i would be worried, but the rest a little more guiding rather then ruling.

[HockeyDad41]

["SECoach"]

Why, so people can go to work and say their kid is on a AAA team instead of an A team? On a B2 team instead of a C team?

If you really believe this statement you are far to cynical to be working with young kids... Think about it !!!

Yes, I may be cynical. That comes not from watching a few kids that were held back, but a couple decades of watching young boys and girls with the potential to make the most of their talents, tainted by parents that think there is a better system for my kid. I don't mean to be smug, but the kids that have parents that are always searching for a way to get ahead of the current system, rather than letting them develop their natural god given talents, more often than not, end up failing.

I'll agree that to the parents of "current" future superstars I may sound cynical. This comes from 25 years of watching over zealous parents run past the dreams of their kid so that by the time they reach high school they are more apt to leave the game than excel. They may still play, but they have left the game. Kids that are the age you are debating over are not able to say "dad, will you relax for Christ's sake". They wait until they are about 13 to 16 and then they say, i have really lost interest.

Bottom line? Tell me who in this debate is the parent of a Bantam player. I'll line up for the shots. All of you that want to change the system for your mite or squirt will get a real eye opening after you fight this fight for a few years. The players that should get noticed do. The players that should develop into D1 and NHL players do. No matter where they play. All you are doing is making your kids miserable. Wait until they are old enough to verbalize it.

All efforts to bring "high level" hockey to Minnesota are simply efforts to patronize the loud mouths that dont get it. The high level hockey is already here. Your kid just isnt in it.

I dont' blame this little tiny crowd that says our system sucks and the kids are being held back. The wisdom and refelection will come later. I just believe that in 8 years they will be sitting with a cup of bad coffee watching their son play Junior Gold wishing they would have gone about things differently.

By the way, happy to be back. I can only sit on the sidelines for so long.

So your message is to not try to change anything?

Is the system in place so perfect that it doesn't need any kind of improvement?

Over your last 25 years of watching overzealous parents were there improvements made to equipment? Are the skates better than they were 25 years ago? Sticks? Protective gear?

In your last 25 years did you notice any improvement in sports medicine or training techiques?

If you noticed any of these things then is it so hard to imagine that the framework of our youth hockey system in Minnesota could be improved upon too?

Not that I don't appreciate the veteran hockey parents that like to shove the good old days down our throats, but maybe it's time to step aside and let us live with our choices whether they are advances or setbacks.

Yes, I know I am destroying my kids and living my dreams vicariously through them and they will in all likelyhood quit the game at an early age because I pushed them too hard. Yawn.

[High Off The Glass]

["SECoach"]

Why, so people can go to work and say their kid is on a AAA team instead of an A team? On a B2 team instead of a C team?

If you really believe this statement you are far to cynical to be working with young kids... Think about it !!!

Yes, I may be cynical. That comes not from watching a few kids that were held back, but a couple decades of watching young boys and girls with the potential to make the most of their talents, tainted by parents that think there is a better system for my kid. I don't mean to be smug, but the kids that have parents that are always searching for a way to get ahead of the current system, rather than letting them develop their natural god given talents, more often than not, end up failing.

I'll agree that to the parents of "current" future superstars I may sound cynical. This comes from 25 years of watching over zealous parents run past the dreams of their kid so that by the time they reach high school they are more apt to leave the game than excel. They may still play, but they have left the game. Kids that are the age you are debating over are not able to say "dad, will you relax for Christ's sake". They wait until they are about 13 to 16 and then they say, i have really lost interest.

Bottom line? Tell me who in this debate is the parent of a Bantam player. I'll line up for the shots. All of you that want to change the system for your mite or squirt will get a real eye opening after you fight this fight for a few years. The players that should get noticed do. The players that should develop into D1 and NHL players do. No matter where they play. All you are doing is making your kids miserable. Wait until they are old enough to verbalize it.

All efforts to bring "high level" hockey to Minnesota are simply efforts to patronize the loud mouths that dont get it. The high level hockey is already here. Your kid just isnt in it.

I dont' blame this little tiny crowd that says our system sucks and the kids are being held back. The wisdom and refelection will come later. I just believe that in 8 years they will be sitting with a cup of bad coffee watching their son play Junior Gold wishing they would have gone about things differently.

By the way, happy to be back. I can only sit on the sidelines for so long.

So your message is to not try to change anything?

Is the system in place so perfect that it doesn't need any kind of improvement?

Over your last 25 years of watching overzealous parents were there improvements made to equipment? Are the skates better than they were 25 years ago? Sticks? Protective gear?

In your last 25 years did you notice any improvement in sports medicine or training techiques?

If you noticed any of these things then is it so hard to imagine that the framework of our youth hockey system in Minnesota could be improved upon too?

Not that I don't appreciate the veteran hockey parents that like to shove the good old days down our throats, but maybe it's time to step aside and let us live with our choices whether they are advances or setbacks.

Yes, I know I am destroying my kids and living my dreams vicariously through them and they will in all likelyhood quit the game at an early age because I pushed them too hard.

Yawn.

You're finally getting it and posted something that made sense!

[SECoach]

["SECoach"]

Why, so people can go to work and say their kid is on a AAA team instead of an A team? On a B2 team instead of a C team?

If you really believe this statement you are far to cynical to be working with young kids... Think about it !!!

Yes, I may be cynical. That comes not from watching a few kids that were held back, but a couple decades of watching young boys and girls with the potential to make the most of their talents, tainted by parents that think there is a better system for my kid. I don't mean to be smug, but the kids that have parents that are always searching for a way to get ahead of the current system, rather than letting them develop their natural god given talents, more often than not, end up failing.

I'll agree that to the parents of "current" future superstars I may sound cynical. This comes from 25 years of watching over zealous parents run past the dreams of their kid so that by the time they reach high school they are more apt to leave the game than excel. They may still play, but they have left the game. Kids that are the age you are debating over are not able to say "dad, will you relax for Christ's sake". They wait until they are about 13 to 16 and then they say, i have really lost interest.

Bottom line? Tell me who in this debate is the parent of a Bantam player. I'll line up for the shots. All of you that want to change the system for your mite or squirt will get a real eye opening after you fight this fight for a few years. The players that should get noticed do. The players that should develop into D1 and NHL players do. No matter where they play. All you are doing is making your kids miserable. Wait until they are old enough to verbalize it.

All efforts to bring "high level" hockey to Minnesota are simply efforts to patronize the loud mouths that dont get it. The high level hockey is already here. Your kid just isnt in it.

I dont' blame this little tiny crowd that says our system sucks and the kids are being held back. The wisdom and refelection will come later. I just believe that in 8 years they will be sitting with a cup of bad coffee watching their son play Junior Gold wishing they would have gone about things differently.

By the way, happy to be back. I can only sit on the sidelines for so long.

So your message is to not try to change anything?

Is the system in place so perfect that it doesn't need any kind of improvement?

Over your last 25 years of watching overzealous parents were there improvements made to equipment? Are the skates better than they were 25 years ago? Sticks? Protective gear?

In your last 25 years did you notice any improvement in sports medicine or training techiques?

If you noticed any of these things then is it so hard to imagine that the framework of our youth hockey system in Minnesota could be improved upon too?

Not that I don't appreciate the veteran hockey parents that like to shove the good old days down our throats, but maybe it's time to step aside and let us live with our choices whether they are advances or setbacks.

Yes, I know I am destroying my kids and living my dreams vicariously through them and they will in all likelyhood quit the game at an early age because I pushed them too hard. Yawn.

My message is there have been no valid reasons given to change it. I've heard only reasons not to change it. Improved techniques in brain surgury are hard to argue with. The reasons given for changing our hockey system so far are:

*because the other guys "get" to do it. Which can be countered with:

*the other guys "have" to do it.

Make a better arguement than picking on a guy in Florida.

[HockeyDad41]

Yes, I may be cynical. That comes not from watching a few kids that were held back, but a couple decades of watching young boys and girls with the potential to make the most of their talents, tainted by parents that think there is a better system for my kid. I don't mean to be smug, but the kids that have parents that are always searching for a way to get ahead of the current system, rather than letting them develop their natural god given talents, more often than not, end up failing.

I'll agree that to the parents of "current" future superstars I may sound cynical. This comes from 25 years of watching over zealous parents run past the dreams of their kid so that by the time they reach high school they are more apt to leave the game than excel. They may still play, but they have left the game. Kids that are the age you are debating over are not able to say "dad, will you relax for Christ's sake". They wait until they are about 13 to 16 and then they say, i have really lost interest.

Bottom line? Tell me who in this debate is the parent of a Bantam player. I'll line up for the shots. All of you that want to change the system for your mite or squirt will get a real eye opening after you fight this fight for a few years. The players that should get noticed do. The players that should develop into D1 and NHL players do. No matter where they play. All you are doing is making your kids miserable. Wait until they are old enough to verbalize it.

All efforts to bring "high level" hockey to Minnesota are simply efforts to patronize the loud mouths that dont get it. The high level hockey is already here. Your kid just isnt in it.

I dont' blame this little tiny crowd that says our system sucks and the kids are being held back. The wisdom and refelection will come later. I just believe that in 8 years they will be sitting with a cup of bad coffee watching their son play Junior Gold wishing they would have gone about things differently.

By the way, happy to be back. I can only sit on the sidelines for so long.

So your message is to not try to change anything?

Is the system in place so perfect that it doesn't need any kind of improvement?

Over your last 25 years of watching overzealous parents were there improvements made to equipment? Are the skates better than they were 25 years ago? Sticks? Protective gear?

In your last 25 years did you notice any improvement in sports medicine or training techiques?

If you noticed any of these things then is it so hard to imagine that the framework of our youth hockey system in Minnesota could be improved upon too?

Not that I don't appreciate the veteran hockey parents that like to shove the good old days down our throats, but maybe it's time to step aside and let us live with our choices whether they are advances or setbacks.

Yes, I know I am destroying my kids and living my dreams vicariously through them and they will in all likelyhood quit the game at an early age because I pushed them too hard. Yawn.

My message is there have been no valid reasons given to change it. I've heard only reasons not to change it. Improved techniques in brain surgury are hard to argue with. The reasons given for changing our hockey system so far are:

*because the other guys "get" to do it. Which can be countered with:

*the other guys "have" to do it.

Make a better arguement than picking on a guy in Florida.

The old "it ain't broke so why bother" mentality. That's fine. Personally, I don't have a problem with tinkering to try to make something better.

There are a lot more arguments for changing our hockey system than "because the other guys get to do it." If that's what you think, then you are not listening.

[WhosPuckIsItAnyways?]

My message is there have been no valid reasons given to change it. I've heard only reasons not to change it. Improved techniques in brain surgury are hard to argue with. The reasons given for changing our hockey system so far are:

People choose to play Tier 1 Hockey for different reasons. They don't need their reasons validated or approved. They simply need the option accomodated by the approrpiate authority - in this case Minnesota Hockey.

You may not like or agree with our reasons for playing Tier 1 hockey. You don't have to. Just get out of the damn way.

Live and let live. This is, afterall, America.

[SECoach]

My message is there have been no valid reasons given to change it. I've heard only reasons not to change it. Improved techniques in brain surgury are hard to argue with. The reasons given for changing our hockey system so far are:

People choose to play Tier 1 Hockey for different reasons. They don't need their reasons validated or approved. They simply need the option accomodated by the approrpiate authority - in this case Minnesota Hockey.

You may not like or agree with our reasons for playing Tier 1 hockey. You don't have to. Just get out of the damn way.

Live and let live. This is, afterall, America.

I'm sorry but they do need reasons. Not to play Tier I, but for the appropriate authority to make changes to accomodate it. When i ask for compelling reasons I am told over and over that they don't need reasons, or it's because I want to, or........the reasons given are very self centered and don't make the organization better.

Not paying attention? No I think I'm paying very close attention. It's just the same old reasons that don't help the organization.

Get out of the way? Yes, because there a few renegades that now know better the rest should just get out of the way and let the people with all the new experience take over. That would be great for the organization. We would then definately have people in charge that are looking out for the masses and not individuals then.

The free country stuff is comical. After all this is America. That's how a well run, and respected organization should run. It's America so just do what ever you want regardless of the long term consequences.

The statements like "look out, get out of the way, it's coming and you can't stop it" are statements made by people that can't see further than their own kitchen. The parent organization of Minnesota Hockey, USA Hockey is moving farther and farther away from what you are looking for. 12 and under National Championiships have been eliminated. The ADM calls for specific HPC teams to meet the needs of age appropriate Elite players, not a free for all Tier 1 system.

I'll ask again. What are the reasons for adding Tier 1 to our present system. Oh that's right. Minnesota Hockey will make the change because they have to or else. No, when compelling arguements are made, after careful consideration, if it makes Minnesota Hockey a better organization, changes will be made. Ego statements and reasoning will not get it done. Neighboring affiliate members cheating and not playing by the rules will not get it done.

By the way I'm sorry to have made myself out to be a grayhaired old goat because I've been involved for 25 years. I'm not someone living in the past of how it used to be. I just got involved very early. I have kids at young ages playing. I'm right in the middle of it. Not part of the good old boys network smokin a fat cigar in a back room trying to make sure you don't get what you want. Convince me. So far, it's just a bunch of crap. I do need to like your reasons, or I'll fight it tooth and nail along with many, many others.

[WhosPuckIsItAnyways?]

I do need to like your reasons, or I'll fight it tooth and nail.

Right. it's all about your ego and that's the unfortunate thing ... it ought to be about the membership ... the sooner you and people like you understand that, the better off we'll all be ...

[SECoach]

I do need to like your reasons, or I'll fight it tooth and nail.

Right. it's all about your ego and that's the unfortunate thing ... it ought to be about the membership ... the sooner you and people like you understand that, the better off we'll all be ...

Yeah it's about my ego because I support an organization with decades of success, constant improvement, and whether you like it or believe it, is the model organization in the country. I know you talked to a guy one time that said Mass, or Mich, is the best so you won't understand that. Talk to some people that are deeply involved in those organizations rather than a dad bragging. You will likely get a different response.

It's about my ego because I think the present system will make my kids better players and provide him and her more opportunities. It's about my ego because I only think about changing the system to benefit my kids.

It is about the membership, which is why changes that benefit only very, very few, if in fact any, should be scrutinized to death. I am involved, I can and will take valid arguments to people that make the decisions. Convince me. Get out of the way? Good luck with that.

[3GoonsWest]

Yeah it's about my ego because I support an organization with decades of success, constant improvement, and whether you like it or believe it, is the model organization in the country.

The organization isn't that same in all areas. What about the kids that can play at the tier 1 level and are in an association nowhere near any cake eaters?

It's about my ego because I think the present system will make my kids better players and provide him and her more opportunities.

Would your opinion be the same if you kids weren't becoming better hockey players and weren't seeing the opportunities?

It is about the membership, which is why changes that benefit only very, very few, if in fact any, should be scrutinized to death.

Do the changes that hurt/hinder only a few receive the same scrutiny?

I don't know if it's the answer or not. I do know that if your model organization is so strong and right, losing a handful of kids shouldn't make a difference to the masses. It certainly would make a difference to some kids.

[WhosPuckIsItAnyways?]

Yeah it's about my ego because I support an organization with decades of success, constant improvement, and whether you like it or believe it, is the model organization in the country. I know you talked to a guy one time that said Mass, or Mich, is the best so you won't understand that.

It's about my ego because I think the present system will make my kids better players and provide him and her more opportunities. It's about my ego because I only think about changing the system to benefit my kids.

It is about the membership, which is why changes that benefit only very, very few, if in fact any, should be scrutinized to death. I am involved, I can and will take valid arguments to people that make the decisions. Convince me. Get out of the way? Good luck with that.

No, no, clearly not about you at all ...

[SECoach]

Yeah it's about my ego because I support an organization with decades of success, constant improvement, and whether you like it or believe it, is the model organization in the country. I know you talked to a guy one time that said Mass, or Mich, is the best so you won't understand that.

It's about my ego because I think the present system will make my kids better players and provide him and her more opportunities. It's about my ego because I only think about changing the system to benefit my kids.

It is about the membership, which is why changes that benefit only very, very few, if in fact any, should be scrutinized to death. I am involved, I can and will take valid arguments to people that make the decisions. Convince me. Get out of the way? Good luck with that.

No, no, clearly not about you at all ...

When your case has no merit, you resort to the same old crap. Don't make any points, just sling some mud. Like I said. Best of luck going about it like that. Use the same tact and see where it gets you. Yeah, it's coming we should just get out of the way.

[O-townClown]

The organization isn't that same in all areas. What about the kids that can play at the tier 1 level and are in an association nowhere near any cake eaters?

I'm still trying to figure out this argument. Forget Tier I, any club hockey structure has a hard time holding practices if the kids are out of area.

Do you propose that kids fly to practices like the Tier I TPH Thunder? By holding practices in Huntsville, Atlanta, and a third city (either Nashville, Raleigh, or Charlotte, I can't recall) they make it real convenient to play Tier I hockey.

Or do you have weekend practices like the Tier I Florida Everblades AAA? Kids can fend for themselves on the weekdays. I'd imagine the Green Bay Gamblers have a similar practice schedule, no?

If you live in an area that is far from the Twin Cities, you probably also live in an area far from home base for one of the Tier I teams that could form.

What geography did you have in mind and how often will these kids practice?
[/u]

[Puckstopper81]

Believe me, out of town/state players that play for the Everblades or Thunder would give their right arm to play in a community based hockey system. They travel because they have to since there is real no competitive hockey in Florida, Tennessee, or Alabama. Don't get me wrong, there are some great hockey players/teams that come out of some of these states, but not consistently through the age groups. Do you think these families like dropping 10, 12, or 15K a season for their kids to play? I bet most of them would say NO!

[Quasar]

The organization isn't that same in all areas. What about the kids that can play at the tier 1 level and are in an association nowhere near any cake eaters?

I'm still trying to figure out this argument. Forget Tier I, any club hockey structure has a hard time holding practices if the kids are out of area.

Do you propose that kids fly to practices like the Tier I TPH Thunder? By holding practices in Huntsville, Atlanta, and a third city (either Nashville, Raleigh, or Charlotte, I can't recall) they make it real convenient to play Tier I hockey.

Or do you have weekend practices like the Tier I Florida Everblades AAA? Kids can fend for themselves on the weekdays. I'd imagine the Green Bay Gamblers have a similar practice schedule, no?

If you live in an area that is far from the Twin Cities, you probably also live in an area far from home base for one of the Tier I teams that could form.

What geography did you have in mind and how often will these kids practice?
[/u]

I think he is saying if your in Pine City, Your no where near Edina!!
Still in Minnesota However.