Lakeville Hockey Board Questions

[jackdaw]

Copperclutterbuck, this is a good one!

"Research was done with all the associations and significant review before deciiding on the date to start the season. Much thought went into that. The kids will not be behind. Just because we started earlier last year does not mean kids were the ice 24/7."

I did a "significant review" myself (about 10 minutes) and here is what I came up with based on start dates of all D8 associations and other big associations:

Association PW Start Date
Eden Prairie 9/25
Apple Valley 9/26
Inver Grove Heights 9/26
Edina 9/26
Eastview 9/28
South St. Paul 9/28
White Bear Lake 9/28
Maple Grove 9/29
Cottage Grove 9/30
Rosemount 9/30
Eagan 10/2
Farmington 10/2
Sibley 10/2
Woodbury 10/2
Stillwater 10/3
Johnson 10/4
Wayzata 10/4
Hastings 10/17
Lakeville 10/25

Also, here is the league game scheduling dates (from StickStats D8 website) and start date of district 8 games. Most teams will not even be formed before league scheduling games, and there will be less than two weeks before the first game to get a team ready. Bet the coaches will love not having any input on their game scheduling.

2010/11 Updated League Information:

Scheduling Meetings:

All meetings begin at 7:00 pm
10/11 Bantam A & B1 - Rosemount VFW
10/13 Peewee A & B1 - IGH Moose Lodge
10/28 Girls 10U A/B & 12U A/B - Croatian Hall
11/1 Bantam and Peewee B2 & C - Rosemount VFW
11/3 Squirt A & B - Croatian Hall
11/4 Squirt C - St Paul Park American Legion
11/15 Girls 14U A - Croatian Hall
11/29 Jr. Gold - TBA

League Dates:

Bantam A & B1, Peewee A & B1, Girls 14U A & B, and Girls 12U A & B - 11/15 to 2/13
Playoffs 2/20 to 2/27

Bantam B2 & C and Peewee B2 & C, Squirt A & B and Girls 10U A & B - 11/29 to 3/6
Playoffs 3/14 to 3/20

Jr. Gold B - TBD at scheduling meeting
Playoffs 3/20 to 3/27

Now that is some research and thought process! I can't imagine that they will be behind... Any other reason the season was delayed a month? Perhaps someone on the board is getting paid to run clinics in October, instead of having the kids develop with their team and coaches during the month of October where development and cohesiveness of a team is created.

I also doubt it's football. EP and Wayzata haven't had much problem with success in their programs and they start early.

[observer]

Football (fall sports families) pushing that one.

[seek & destroy]

I was reading through the minutes of the LHA Board for the past few months and talking to other people in the association and had some questions that don't seem to make sense:

Is this true?

I am not part of the LHA but I will give these questions a shot:

Why would the board remove the audio portion of the board meetings? For those who could not attend the meetings, it was a good way to find out what was being said at the meetings.
After checking your website and others, your association does a much better job of posting meeting minutes in a timely fashion then most associations. The audio was probably nice to have but not a necessity to find out the basics of what is going on. There is also a question whether people need to hear all the thoughts, ideas and discussion regarding every issue (unless they are willing to step forward and be part of the discussion). For people who like to simply stay on the sidelines and throw daggers, audio can just give them more daggers to throw at the individuals who are willing to step up. Meeting minutes give you the general feel of what is going on in the association which should give you what you need. The fact that people have found so much information on your website regarding your questions is a testimony to at least some communcation by the board.

Why did the board vote to remove the Past President and President Elect positions?
I don't know why they would have had those positions in the first place...they are unnecessary. In reviewing your hierarchy chart (posted online by the way), they are directly below the president in the hierarchy which gives a lot of power to only 3 individuals. I question whether one of the reasons your president is possibly making decisions without much input is because he is supported by the other two and they are just avoiding discussions by running things their way. The President should be there to primarily facilitate the meetings and help coordinate and work with other board positions...it doesn't take 3 people to do that. Having the President elect there to learn how to run meetings etc. prior to taking over makes sense but when the new President elect takes over the current President becomes an outside advisor and so on...

Is this Gus Barger guy really getting paid $35k a year. Isn't he the one who has been kicked out of multiple associations and removed from teaching?
This is a legitimate concern and worth you taking at least a moment to contact the board to find out what is going on. From my review of the minutes, it looks like there was some discussion but then a push for a vote to get a decision made. The idea that they had "nearly earned" enough funds to pay for him is not legitimate. Those funds could be used in a variety of ways and the argument that implied that there was money there so lets pay this guy leaves out lots of other options for the money. Spending $35k for a 'volunteer position' is something that needs more discussion and communication with the general membership...that's a lot of money for any association to spend. I am not saying that the position shouldn't be paid but I do think it is important to allow people a better chance to offer opinions and suggestions for other instructors etc.. Your questions regarding whether he is the same guy as the guy who was kicked out of other associations would have been answered if they had waited to vote and had more discussion.

Is the Treasurer getting paid, I heard $8000 a year, where is that in the minutes if it is true.
Once again a legitimate question that deserves your thoughtful time following up directly with the board. The position of treasurer in a large association may warrant some pay but $8000 seems a little high unless they are also taking on audits, gambling income/expenses as well as regular treasurer work. Either way, any expenditure that size deserves more open communication to the members for them to give input at meetings or via email. Decisions involving 'salaries' for any volunteer positions should always be communicated to the entire membership prior to voting on it.

Is the association going to Total Hockey this year, isn't one of the board members the owner of this?
Total Hockey is located in Lakeville so it makes sense to use it as a developmental tool. Certainly that board member should not be part of that discussion and it sounds like they weren't. I don't know how they are planning to use Total Hockey but many associations use outside companies (Acceleration Minn., FHIT, Impact, etc.) to help with development during the season and off season. The fact that you have a business located close by should be a plus but great care should be taken when dealing with private companies that could have a conflict of interest.

Was the Gambling manager fired and replaced with one of the President's friends without the board knowing about it?
Again, if true, the rest of the board should be outraged and a movement should be started to get rid of the President! It doesn't matter if the gambling manager is a friend of the President or not but the idea that the President would fire and replace someone without board approval is totally wrong and would be worthy of removal of the President if true.

Why is the season starting so late this year, the kids will be a month behind other associations, and the cost is the same as last year for one month less of skating. That does not make sense-less ice, same cost.
This is one of the issues that probably will upset families more than any other thing you have mentioned. Many associations have considered moving out the start of youth hockey so it doesn't conflict with fall sports (especially football) so much. Personally, I think it is a huge mistake to move the start date out as much as as Lakeville is doing especially for Bantams and Peewees. Squirts were moved a few years ago to help with ice coordinating but moving everything makes little sense. I would assume that there are some form of skating clinics during that month so kids can get started working on their skating but I can't see any reason to not start team formation in late September or early October. As far as your "less ice - same cost" statement, starting later doesn't necessarily mean less ice. Ice costs have also continued to rise so it makes sense that it could cost the same for a little less ice but I agree that you should have a concern if you are paying the same rate as last year and end up missing out on a whole month of skating.

Based on your questions, you seem to be wanting a lot of answers and many of them are warranted questions. On the surface, it appears that you may have a rogue President and board that is making huge decisions that have impact on the entire association without much input from the members of the association. While that is the quickest way to get decisions made, it isn't the best way to represent the members of the association. If it is true that you absolutely can't make a board meeting (the importance of your questions should make it a high priority), then you should talk with other people you are close with and see if a group of them would go and represent you and your concerns at a meeting. You can certainly write a letter to the board and have it read by someone on your behalf -or- just send it direct to the board and ask that it be addressed at the next meeting. Either way, bringing your concerns up on this site is a good start but won't have the impact of directly confronting the board at a meeting or via letter.

[InigoMontoya]

Football (fall sports families) pushing that one.

I've heard they play a little football in Eden Prairie.

[defensezone]

I was reading through the minutes of the LHA Board for the past few months and talking to other people in the association and had some questions that don't seem to make sense:

Is this true?

I am not part of the LHA but I will give these questions a shot:

Why would the board remove the audio portion of the board meetings? For those who could not attend the meetings, it was a good way to find out what was being said at the meetings.
After checking your website and others, your association does a much better job of posting meeting minutes in a timely fashion then most associations. The audio was probably nice to have but not a necessity to find out the basics of what is going on. There is also a question whether people need to hear all the thoughts, ideas and discussion regarding every issue (unless they are willing to step forward and be part of the discussion). For people who like to simply stay on the sidelines and throw daggers, audio can just give them more daggers to throw at the individuals who are willing to step up. Meeting minutes give you the general feel of what is going on in the association which should give you what you need. The fact that people have found so much information on your website regarding your questions is a testimony to at least some communcation by the board.

Why did the board vote to remove the Past President and President Elect positions?
I don't know why they would have had those positions in the first place...they are unnecessary. In reviewing your hierarchy chart (posted online by the way), they are directly below the president in the hierarchy which gives a lot of power to only 3 individuals. I question whether one of the reasons your president is possibly making decisions without much input is because he is supported by the other two and they are just avoiding discussions by running things their way. The President should be there to primarily facilitate the meetings and help coordinate and work with other board positions...it doesn't take 3 people to do that. Having the President elect there to learn how to run meetings etc. prior to taking over makes sense but when the new President elect takes over the current President becomes an outside advisor and so on...

Is this Gus Barger guy really getting paid $35k a year. Isn't he the one who has been kicked out of multiple associations and removed from teaching?
This is a legitimate concern and worth you taking at least a moment to contact the board to find out what is going on. From my review of the minutes, it looks like there was some discussion but then a push for a vote to get a decision made. The idea that they had "nearly earned" enough funds to pay for him is not legitimate. Those funds could be used in a variety of ways and the argument that implied that there was money there so lets pay this guy leaves out lots of other options for the money. Spending $35k for a 'volunteer position' is something that needs more discussion and communication with the general membership...that's a lot of money for any association to spend. I am not saying that the position shouldn't be paid but I do think it is important to allow people a better chance to offer opinions and suggestions for other instructors etc.. Your questions regarding whether he is the same guy as the guy who was kicked out of other associations would have been answered if they had waited to vote and had more discussion.

Is the Treasurer getting paid, I heard $8000 a year, where is that in the minutes if it is true.
Once again a legitimate question that deserves your thoughtful time following up directly with the board. The position of treasurer in a large association may warrant some pay but $8000 seems a little high unless they are also taking on audits, gambling income/expenses as well as regular treasurer work. Either way, any expenditure that size deserves more open communication to the members for them to give input at meetings or via email. Decisions involving 'salaries' for any volunteer positions should always be communicated to the entire membership prior to voting on it.

Is the association going to Total Hockey this year, isn't one of the board members the owner of this?
Total Hockey is located in Lakeville so it makes sense to use it as a developmental tool. Certainly that board member should not be part of that discussion and it sounds like they weren't. I don't know how they are planning to use Total Hockey but many associations use outside companies (Acceleration Minn., FHIT, Impact, etc.) to help with development during the season and off season. The fact that you have a business located close by should be a plus but great care should be taken when dealing with private companies that could have a conflict of interest.

Was the Gambling manager fired and replaced with one of the President's friends without the board knowing about it?
Again, if true, the rest of the board should be outraged and a movement should be started to get rid of the President! It doesn't matter if the gambling manager is a friend of the President or not but the idea that the President would fire and replace someone without board approval is totally wrong and would be worthy of removal of the President if true.

Why is the season starting so late this year, the kids will be a month behind other associations, and the cost is the same as last year for one month less of skating. That does not make sense-less ice, same cost.
This is one of the issues that probably will upset families more than any other thing you have mentioned. Many associations have considered moving out the start of youth hockey so it doesn't conflict with fall sports (especially football) so much. Personally, I think it is a huge mistake to move the start date out as much as as Lakeville is doing especially for Bantams and Peewees. Squirts were moved a few years ago to help with ice coordinating but moving everything makes little sense. I would assume that there are some form of skating clinics during that month so kids can get started working on their skating but I can't see any reason to not start team formation in late September or early October. As far as your "less ice - same cost" statement, starting later doesn't necessarily mean less ice. Ice costs have also continued to rise so it makes sense that it could cost the same for a little less ice but I agree that you should have a concern if you are paying the same rate as last year and end up missing out on a whole month of skating.

Based on your questions, you seem to be wanting a lot of answers and many of them are warranted questions. On the surface, it appears that you may have a rogue President and board that is making huge decisions that have impact on the entire association without much input from the members of the association. While that is the quickest way to get decisions made, it isn't the best way to represent the members of the association. If it is true that you absolutely can't make a board meeting (the importance of your questions should make it a high priority), then you should talk with other people you are close with and see if a group of them would go and represent you and your concerns at a meeting. You can certainly write a letter to the board and have it read by someone on your behalf -or- just send it direct to the board and ask that it be addressed at the next meeting. Either way, bringing your concerns up on this site is a good start but won't have the impact of directly confronting the board at a meeting or via letter.

All good points “seek & destroy”. I have a couple more…
1. When this new 35k position was developed, why was this not posted? There should have been a job description developed, then posted, applications taken, an interview process set-up, run a back ground check, etc. Was this done?
2. Looking at the agenda/minutes (posted on the LHA web site), if people are being fired on the board, shouldn’t the agenda prior to that meeting reflect that so the public is informed? I cannot find this information on any previous agenda.
3. Per LHA by laws, 2/3 vote to add/dismiss a person on the board. Has this happened? There is nothing in the minutes that support any of these actions.

Just some thoughts…

[buttend]

I was reading through the minutes of the LHA Board for the past few months and talking to other people in the association and had some questions that don't seem to make sense:

Is this true?

I am not part of the LHA but I will give these questions a shot:

Why would the board remove the audio portion of the board meetings? For those who could not attend the meetings, it was a good way to find out what was being said at the meetings.
After checking your website and others, your association does a much better job of posting meeting minutes in a timely fashion then most associations. The audio was probably nice to have but not a necessity to find out the basics of what is going on. There is also a question whether people need to hear all the thoughts, ideas and discussion regarding every issue (unless they are willing to step forward and be part of the discussion). For people who like to simply stay on the sidelines and throw daggers, audio can just give them more daggers to throw at the individuals who are willing to step up. Meeting minutes give you the general feel of what is going on in the association which should give you what you need. The fact that people have found so much information on your website regarding your questions is a testimony to at least some communcation by the board.

Why did the board vote to remove the Past President and President Elect positions?
I don't know why they would have had those positions in the first place...they are unnecessary. In reviewing your hierarchy chart (posted online by the way), they are directly below the president in the hierarchy which gives a lot of power to only 3 individuals. I question whether one of the reasons your president is possibly making decisions without much input is because he is supported by the other two and they are just avoiding discussions by running things their way. The President should be there to primarily facilitate the meetings and help coordinate and work with other board positions...it doesn't take 3 people to do that. Having the President elect there to learn how to run meetings etc. prior to taking over makes sense but when the new President elect takes over the current President becomes an outside advisor and so on...

Is this Gus Barger guy really getting paid $35k a year. Isn't he the one who has been kicked out of multiple associations and removed from teaching?
This is a legitimate concern and worth you taking at least a moment to contact the board to find out what is going on. From my review of the minutes, it looks like there was some discussion but then a push for a vote to get a decision made. The idea that they had "nearly earned" enough funds to pay for him is not legitimate. Those funds could be used in a variety of ways and the argument that implied that there was money there so lets pay this guy leaves out lots of other options for the money. Spending $35k for a 'volunteer position' is something that needs more discussion and communication with the general membership...that's a lot of money for any association to spend. I am not saying that the position shouldn't be paid but I do think it is important to allow people a better chance to offer opinions and suggestions for other instructors etc.. Your questions regarding whether he is the same guy as the guy who was kicked out of other associations would have been answered if they had waited to vote and had more discussion.

Is the Treasurer getting paid, I heard $8000 a year, where is that in the minutes if it is true.
Once again a legitimate question that deserves your thoughtful time following up directly with the board. The position of treasurer in a large association may warrant some pay but $8000 seems a little high unless they are also taking on audits, gambling income/expenses as well as regular treasurer work. Either way, any expenditure that size deserves more open communication to the members for them to give input at meetings or via email. Decisions involving 'salaries' for any volunteer positions should always be communicated to the entire membership prior to voting on it.

Is the association going to Total Hockey this year, isn't one of the board members the owner of this?
Total Hockey is located in Lakeville so it makes sense to use it as a developmental tool. Certainly that board member should not be part of that discussion and it sounds like they weren't. I don't know how they are planning to use Total Hockey but many associations use outside companies (Acceleration Minn., FHIT, Impact, etc.) to help with development during the season and off season. The fact that you have a business located close by should be a plus but great care should be taken when dealing with private companies that could have a conflict of interest.

Was the Gambling manager fired and replaced with one of the President's friends without the board knowing about it?
Again, if true, the rest of the board should be outraged and a movement should be started to get rid of the President! It doesn't matter if the gambling manager is a friend of the President or not but the idea that the President would fire and replace someone without board approval is totally wrong and would be worthy of removal of the President if true.

Why is the season starting so late this year, the kids will be a month behind other associations, and the cost is the same as last year for one month less of skating. That does not make sense-less ice, same cost.
This is one of the issues that probably will upset families more than any other thing you have mentioned. Many associations have considered moving out the start of youth hockey so it doesn't conflict with fall sports (especially football) so much. Personally, I think it is a huge mistake to move the start date out as much as as Lakeville is doing especially for Bantams and Peewees. Squirts were moved a few years ago to help with ice coordinating but moving everything makes little sense. I would assume that there are some form of skating clinics during that month so kids can get started working on their skating but I can't see any reason to not start team formation in late September or early October. As far as your "less ice - same cost" statement, starting later doesn't necessarily mean less ice. Ice costs have also continued to rise so it makes sense that it could cost the same for a little less ice but I agree that you should have a concern if you are paying the same rate as last year and end up missing out on a whole month of skating.

Based on your questions, you seem to be wanting a lot of answers and many of them are warranted questions. On the surface, it appears that you may have a rogue President and board that is making huge decisions that have impact on the entire association without much input from the members of the association. While that is the quickest way to get decisions made, it isn't the best way to represent the members of the association. If it is true that you absolutely can't make a board meeting (the importance of your questions should make it a high priority), then you should talk with other people you are close with and see if a group of them would go and represent you and your concerns at a meeting. You can certainly write a letter to the board and have it read by someone on your behalf -or- just send it direct to the board and ask that it be addressed at the next meeting. Either way, bringing your concerns up on this site is a good start but won't have the impact of directly confronting the board at a meeting or via letter.

All good points “seek & destroy”. I have a couple more…
1. When this new 35k position was developed, why was this not posted? There should have been a job description developed, then posted, applications taken, an interview process set-up, run a back ground check, etc. Was this done?
2. Looking at the agenda/minutes (posted on the LHA web site), if people are being fired on the board, shouldn’t the agenda prior to that meeting reflect that so the public is informed? I cannot find this information on any previous agenda.
3. Per LHA by laws, 2/3 vote to add/dismiss a person on the board. Has this happened? There is nothing in the minutes that support any of these actions.

Just some thoughts…

Additional questions

There are 36 "volunteer" Board Positions listed on the LHA website.
1) Why are 2 on these positions now PAID positions?

2)Is the new Gambling Director related to the President?

3)Is the $35K Development Administrator the neighbor of the President? According to the LHA Board minutes for July 2010 President Ruki was the person who pushed for the pay?

4)How much money per registrated player goes to these salaries?
$43,000 / 1000 ( estimated players) = $43 per player?
$35,000 for a 3.5 month shortened season?

5)If the Association is starting a month late, what are the ramifications to the City of Lakeville Ice contract/ bill for unused ice?
Is the Association paying for unused ice or is the city understanding and letting Lakeville modify the existing contract giving up ice?

6) Who signed the contract with HDC? How many years was the contract for? Did an outside legal consul advise the Association on the contracts terms? Did the Board vote on the contract motion?

[greybeard58]

For the LHA parents, if you need to get resolution first if there are no answers or you find there were violations of by-laws you will first need to file a grievance to the LHA board. If they refuse to hear your grievance then you use Article 6 in the Mn Hockey handbook and file an appeal to the District 8 Director. Rak is a good person but follow the steps needed.

[shutthepuckup]

Need I say anymore when you look at who the "author" is of this post. Do you not have anything better to do with your time KJ? Maybe you should take a walk with your family and breath in some fresh air. It may do you some good. Anyone who wastes their time on trying to slander other people really need to get out more. Maybe attending a board meeting may help with your frustration instead of hiding behind a forum. From a parent who has much to do and no time to waste voicing my opinion on such a site would only confirm that I am a coward and not an adult who gives a care about their child or community and only wanted to foster my own agenda by creating such conflict to total strangers. Hope to see you either Thursday night or at the next BOARD meeting. Best of wishes KJ!!!!

[oholene]

I was reading through the minutes of the LHA Board for the past few months and talking to other people in the association and had some questions that don't seem to make sense:


Why would the board remove the audio portion of the board meetings? For those who could not attend the meetings, it was a good way to find out what was being said at the meetings.

Why did the board vote to remove the Past President and President Elect positions?

Is this Gus Barger guy really getting paid $35k a year. Isn't he the one who has been kicked out of multiple associations and removed from teaching?

Is the Treasurer getting paid, I heard $8000 a year, where is that in the minutes if it is true.

Is the association going to Total Hockey this year, isn't one of the board members the owner of this?

Was the Gambling manager fired and replaced with one of the President's friends without the board knowing about it?

Why is the season starting so late this year, the kids will be a month behind other associations, and the cost is the same as last year for one month less of skating. That does not make sense-less ice, same cost.

Is this true?

You might want to attend a board meeting in person and ask these questions. If they are not answered to your liking run for the board next year.

OnFrozenPond or OnThinIce,

Wow! Are you kidding me! Your answer is to run for the board next year if your question is not answered to your liking. How will that get your question answered?

Here is a better idea: E-mail the President at president@lakevillehockey.org by Oct 5th and request an item to be placed on the agenda, call it "Lakeville Hockey Board Questions". Then have a member review and extract any question in this forum under the Subject "Lakeville Hockey Board Questions". Then since the board only allows 2 minutes for speak out to the board, just hand the list of questions to the President giving a resonable time frame for reply and ask for the Q and A to be put in the October Newsletter.

The Board of Directors
The Board of Directors administers the Lakeville Hockey Association (“LHA”) operations. Each director is elected to a
two-year term. The LHA board meets on the second Wednesday of each month. These meetings are held at the Ames Arena
and generally begin at 7:00 p.m. A member may request an item to be placed on the agenda by contacting the LHA President
or Secretary. This can be done by calling or e-mailing the President or Secretary at least a week in advance of the meeting.

[GMANDAD]

Maybe he (or she) works 60 hours per week and can't run. Maybe he's just trying to inspire others to run. It sure seems like the questions he asked are fair points for discussion in this forum!

I aggree. I think everyone can agree that most hockey associations are not "transparent". There is a common fear that if you ask questions you will be labled "on of those parents". Even the hockey experts on this board make muliple comments about "it's the parents that screw the kids chance of getting on an A team" They even say that about AAA teams. I think they are legitimate questions, why not ask here, maybe someone knows something more. And this is more interesting than beating the dead horse Teir 1/Fire thread.

Fair point on the time commitment and I will concede that board positions may not be for everyone. However, board meetings are open to the public. Why not attend and at least listen, if you have legitimate questions or concerns.

While it can be an interesting read, very little will be resolved on these gossip pages except starting a rant session.

I disagree with the bolded statement OnFrozenPond. Lets use this forum and subject to gather information on the Lakeville Association Board and more importantly share info freely to the membership. It looks like the board at one time thought it was important to record the meetings for the membership, but now it has gone in a different direction. Do you really think that meeting notes come close to capturing what was discussed?

[GMANDAD]

Almost every time someone comes on hear and has a question about an association, they are told to go to the meetings and run for the board. Get a clue guys, THAT'S NOT ALWAYS POSSIBLE. Does that mean they can't ask a question and expect an honest answer.

Let me ask you, who are the board members accountable to? Only to other board members? To association members? Nobody?

Again, I will concede that running for the board is not for everyone. I don't think attending a meeting that takes place once a month is too difficult (if you truly interested in the process and/or the issues). Several years ago, in our association, a number of parents became dissatisfied with the direction the board was taking the program. Many attended the meetings. Some ran for the board and others got behind alternative candidates that they felt best represented their views. Seems to me that would be a better approach.

So far we have an anonymous poster throwing out mostly gossip. If you think this it going to go anywhere positive...have at it.

It is evident from your post that you know some of it is not gossip. In order to keep this positive please start your own subject, and the rest of us will "have at it"

[GMANDAD]

Just a couple of points. The first thing to remember is that everyone on the board is a volunteer. The majority of people don't volunteer to go to the dark side, they were just plain interested, upset or whatever and wanted to participate. The answer to some of the questions are as follows.

The board started audio in Dec of 09. While it sounds neat and techy, it didn't always work so well. The batteries failed, you couldn't hear what people said and the quality wasn't so great. So we voted and it stopped.

The Past President position wasn't removed, just the voting. The President elect position was removed because people felt it was not helpful to the process.

The treasurer was voted to get paid $8500. That will be in minutes posted in October.

The Association is going to Total Hockey this year. That board member was not at the meeting where that was decided and did not vote. Per the conflict of interest policy any board member with a conflict recuses themself from voting.

Research was done with all the associations and significant review before deciiding on the date to start the season. Much thought went into that. The kids will not be behind. Just because we started earlier last year does not mean kids were on the ice 24/7.

I suggest you come to a board meeting even if you are busy. We all are. Everyone works....Run for the board, come and present, or just plain listen to what goes on.

Nice first post! Here is a thought, try to build some credibility first. The board has numerous paid members. Now if you are to be believed, Lakeville will now have a paid voting member in the Treasurer.

[hockey_is_a_choice]

Shutthepuckup,

First, nice moniker. It speaks volumes about you (no pun intended).

Second, nice response to a member's concerns--and you wonder why he (or she) is voicing concerns on a public forum. I noticed you did not attempt to answer ANY of the member's questions. If you are a Lakeville Hockey Board member, shame on you. Even if you disagree with the poster's positions or personally dislike the poster, you have a duty to respond professionally. No wonder people are afraid to step forward--it's people like you who cause some of us to long for year-round AAA hockey.

Maristar, listen to Greybeard's advice.

[GMANDAD]

Don't ruffle too many feathers, you might mess up your kids with the politics. Your family is stuck playing where you live. Good luck with your issues....

I totally understand where you are coming from. Slowly there are becoming more and more options.

The Fire is off life support for another year.
Minnesota Made is a great option for Lakeville kids. If fact in Lakeville a squirt player gets about 85 hours of ice for $1265, and the Choice Sq league offers 145 hours of ice for $1495. Per hour Minnesota Made (for profit) is less than LHA (non profit)
And whether associations realize it or not, they are contributing less and less to a Minnesota youth hockey player's development.

[GMANDAD]

Need I say anymore when you look at who the "author" is of this post. Do you not have anything better to do with your time KJ? Maybe you should take a walk with your family and breath in some fresh air. It may do you some good. Anyone who wastes their time on trying to slander other people really need to get out more. Maybe attending a board meeting may help with your frustration instead of hiding behind a forum. From a parent who has much to do and no time to waste voicing my opinion on such a site would only confirm that I am a coward and not an adult who gives a care about their child or community and only wanted to foster my own agenda by creating such conflict to total strangers. Hope to see you either Thursday night or at the next BOARD meeting. Best of wishes KJ!!!!

Shutthepuckup stick this in your pipe and smoke it

Directors Responsibilities
The administration and management of all LHA programs, procedures and activities is the responsibility of the LHA
Board of Directors. If you have accepted one of these volunteer positions, it is important that you fulfill your duties with the
following considerations:
• Serve the entire LHA membership fairly and without prejudice for your own children or friends.
• Take the initiative when accepting a director position to fully understand your responsibilities and the time
frames in which your work needs to be done.
• Understand which decisions other directors make that will impact you and which of your decisions impact
others.
• Attend LHA Board meetings. Can be dismissed if more than 3 meeting are missed per calendar year.
• Be prepared with your committee updates for each Board meeting.
• Few decisions made on behalf of the association are made in a unilateral manner.
• Be supportive of other Board members and Board decisions.
• LHA Board members are subject to formal background checks.

[cooper26]

Shutthepuckup,

First, nice moniker. It speaks volumes about you (no pun intended).

Second, nice response to a member's concerns--and you wonder why he (or she) is voicing concerns on a public forum. I noticed you did not attempt to answer ANY of the member's questions. If you are a Lakeville Hockey Board member, shame on you. Even if you disagree with the poster's positions or personally dislike the poster, you have a duty to respond professionally. No wonder people are afraid to step forward--it's people like you who cause some of us to long for year-round AAA hockey.

Maristar, listen to Greybeard's advice.

Good post. LHA is doing a poor job here and, by all accounts, internally. Yes, they publish minutes in a timely fashion but they don't come close to telling enough of the story Similarly, they don't seem to make any attempt to get member input before dealing with issues. $35,000.00 for what??

This site serves it's best purposes in cases like this. It's not "slander" to use a public forum to shed light on communication issues within an organization. The guy with the stupid moniker above comes much closer to it in his attempt to berate the original poster and scare others away.

[BadgerBob82]

pretty obvious shuttheuckup is a LHA board member. He obviously know the poster as KJ. I will assume everyone knows shut up, though not by his "other moniker"?

Most board decisions are not what the appear. But your response shows it probably is true.

[OnFrozenPond]

I was reading through the minutes of the LHA Board for the past few months and talking to other people in the association and had some questions that don't seem to make sense:


Why would the board remove the audio portion of the board meetings? For those who could not attend the meetings, it was a good way to find out what was being said at the meetings.

Why did the board vote to remove the Past President and President Elect positions?

Is this Gus Barger guy really getting paid $35k a year. Isn't he the one who has been kicked out of multiple associations and removed from teaching?

Is the Treasurer getting paid, I heard $8000 a year, where is that in the minutes if it is true.

Is the association going to Total Hockey this year, isn't one of the board members the owner of this?

Was the Gambling manager fired and replaced with one of the President's friends without the board knowing about it?

Why is the season starting so late this year, the kids will be a month behind other associations, and the cost is the same as last year for one month less of skating. That does not make sense-less ice, same cost.

Is this true?

You might want to attend a board meeting in person and ask these questions. If they are not answered to your liking run for the board next year.

OnFrozenPond or OnThinIce,

Wow! Are you kidding me! Your answer is to run for the board next year if your question is not answered to your liking. How will that get your question answered?

Here is a better idea: E-mail the President at president@lakevillehockey.org by Oct 5th and request an item to be placed on the agenda, call it "Lakeville Hockey Board Questions". Then have a member review and extract any question in this forum under the Subject "Lakeville Hockey Board Questions". Then since the board only allows 2 minutes for speak out to the board, just hand the list of questions to the President giving a resonable time frame for reply and ask for the Q and A to be put in the October Newsletter.

The Board of Directors
The Board of Directors administers the Lakeville Hockey Association (“LHA”) operations. Each director is elected to a
two-year term. The LHA board meets on the second Wednesday of each month. These meetings are held at the Ames Arena
and generally begin at 7:00 p.m. A member may request an item to be placed on the agenda by contacting the LHA President
or Secretary. This can be done by calling or e-mailing the President or Secretary at least a week in advance of the meeting.

Good suggestions. I guess you missed the part where I said attend a meeting.

[ThePuckStopsHere]

Need I say anymore when you look at who the "author" is of this post. Do you not have anything better to do with your time KJ? Maybe you should take a walk with your family and breath in some fresh air. It may do you some good. Anyone who wastes their time on trying to slander other people really need to get out more. Maybe attending a board meeting may help with your frustration instead of hiding behind a forum. From a parent who has much to do and no time to waste voicing my opinion on such a site would only confirm that I am a coward and not an adult who gives a care about their child or community and only wanted to foster my own agenda by creating such conflict to total strangers. Hope to see you either Thursday night or at the next BOARD meeting. Best of wishes KJ!!!!

Nice - Finally some juicy hockey drama!

From an outsider looking in "shutthepuckup" you look like a total weasel coming on here with a new moniker to hide behind then throwing out someones initials without addressing any of the questions.

Let me guess you are a overbearing hockey dad with an inflated ego to match the size of your personal hockey agenda??

[sinbin]

Inigo, thanks for the good questions. I was out for a few days and am behind the flurry of e-mails. See my follow-ups below:

I presume that LYHA is a 501(c)(3) organization and is thereby subject to audit in order to maintain their tax-exempt status. Anything untoward would likely come out in such an audit.

How many times has your organization been audited?

***We were audited twice while I was on the board (one internal, one external). This was actually a good thing in the long run in that we are now more transparent and have cleaned up some loose ends and run a tighter ship (and any other like metaphor you care to add. We don't have a perfect system, but it's better than it once was.***

That's a tougher call if you want to stick your neck out.

Why should it be considered sticking your neck out if you ask questions like:
Why are our fees higher?
Why is our ice time less?
Why is our development decreasing?
Why are our numbers down?
Why do our volunteer hours increase?
Those are fair questions that should have fair answers that don't need to be researched. Anyone who has actually spent the time they say they have working at the business of an association board will know those answers.

***All great questions in theory and questions that are occasionally asked and answered, but these are the questions that can potentially get someone labeled "one of those parents" as an earlier poster phrased it, I believe. Or, at least that's the perception of many. Board members should and do have answers for all of the above at least in our association, although the "numbers down" question often requires some speculation. As board members have different personalities, some are naturally more eager to share and others are more defensive. I know I had answers for questions about my slice of the pie.***

but it's much easier for me to look myself in the mirror if I act to try to fix things (even though not everything can be fixed) then it is to complain about it and nothing changes

A good number of folks that have "complained" on this forum have done just what you said - there are flat spots on their skulls from banging them against the wall. In a good number of associations, the days of "nobody else is stepping up to do it" are over; still these board members grasp onto control and will not let it go - I've even heard of by-laws being rewritten in the middle of the night to secure elections.

***I'll claim knowledge of only my association (again by no means perfect and certainly rumors floating around), but I can certainly imagine what might occur if accountability and transparency are limited. That's why it's important for more people to get involved. Even showing up at a board meeting (we averaged only 1-2 non-board association members per meeting) helps serve as a sentinel effect to some degree. I think it's very fair to keep the board honest (well, as honest as possible). In my personal situation, although not gifted with extraordinary rhetorical or persuasive skills, I was able to fix several things immediately just by volunteering to do them myself, other things I fixed over time by persistence and logic, and still other things I can't fix and know I never will. I do have a shiny bald spot on my head from banging it against a wall (I don't think my skull is too misshapen yet) because of the unfixable items, but eventually realized that many of the self-proclaimed hockey cognescenti will always make decisions based more on personal gain than the broad interest of the membership at large. While not at peace with that and still providing ongoing feedback, I've learned to not obsess over it. Plus, the constant headaches were getting very annoying.***

[buttend]

Need I say anymore when you look at who the "author" is of this post. Do you not have anything better to do with your time KJ? Maybe you should take a walk with your family and breath in some fresh air. It may do you some good. Anyone who wastes their time on trying to slander other people really need to get out more. Maybe attending a board meeting may help with your frustration instead of hiding behind a forum. From a parent who has much to do and no time to waste voicing my opinion on such a site would only confirm that I am a coward and not an adult who gives a care about their child or community and only wanted to foster my own agenda by creating such conflict to total strangers. Hope to see you either Thursday night or at the next BOARD meeting. Best of wishes KJ!!!!

Great first post Mr Board Member/President. Make sure to be ready to address the membership at Thursdays meetings. If you and your Board really have the best interest of Lakeville Hockey, your first agenda item will be to address your membership directly on all these questions on this forum. Almost 4000 views on this topic. This is not a secret anymore.

Address your membership before you lose your more of your board! Do whats right.

[mnhcp]

Seek & Destroy

"Is this guy really getting paid $35k a year. Isn't he the one who has been kicked out of multiple associations and removed from teaching?
This is a legitimate concern and worth you taking at least a moment to contact the board to find out what is going on. From my review of the minutes, it looks like there was some discussion but then a push for a vote to get a decision made. The idea that they had "nearly earned" enough funds to pay for him is not legitimate. Those funds could be used in a variety of ways and the argument that implied that there was money there so lets pay this guy leaves out lots of other options for the money. Spending $35k for a 'volunteer position' is something that needs more discussion and communication with the general membership...that's a lot of money for any association to spend. I am not saying that the position shouldn't be paid but I do think it is important to allow people a better chance to offer opinions and suggestions for other instructors etc.. Your questions regarding whether he is the same guy as the guy who was kicked out of other associations would have been answered if they had waited to vote and had more discussion."
==============================================
Boards are elected to make these decisions for us. LHA has a rather large board and one has to assume spending $35,000 wasn't done without any discussion. I'd have to assume there was a great deal of discussion especially with the large board LHA has. They aren't required to go to the general membership and discuss every little detail. LHA used to publish that newsletter which would have been a great tool to give the membership a heads up but big deal. You elected them, the board then elected your president so someone must like him.

I know this goes without saying but $35,000 a year isn't being tossed out the window to a paid Board Member. He's not being paid to be on the board (as Seek and Destroy alludes), he is providing an additional service that is costing each family $35 year. The question becomes, what is each family getting for this $35 and is this $35 in the best interest of Lakeville Hockey?

I see there are some clinics being run, some dryland stuff being done and I also seem to recall a introduction to hockey for newer kids. This all seems to be in the best interest of LHA. These aren't normal board member responsibilities and probably come at a price. They do benefit the association as a whole.

Why doubt the board on what they thought was a good decision at the time? I'm sure he didn't vote on his own $35,000 (LHA's conflict of interest).

Just because you disagree doesn't make them Rogue! Sounds like we want to assume the worst. I can totally appreciate one being VERY conservative with association funds. That's great and commended. I know tough decisions to cut expenses in the past were made such as not doing Total Hockey. Now there's a changing of the guard and they feel the money is well spent is my take.

As to the dudes character receiving the $35K, who hasn't made a mistake and gone through some tough stuff. Leave the guy alone. The police weren't involved and neither were the courts. Give the guy a break. I have not met him, I've heard good and bad....but the legal system wasn't involved so let it go!

[observer]

Comforting.

[CrashDaNET]

I think I will drive down to the next meeting from Woodbury. It sounds like it may be a HOOT of a meeting!!!!

Is your concession stands open or should I bring my own popcorn?

As far a the $35 dollars...sounds like a great deal!!! $35 and your child gets to attend all the clinics. NOT BAD!!!!

Wait....Does the $35 fee not include the clinic or is that EXTRA dollars?!?!?!?!

(Houston...We have a problem!!!!)

See you next month!!!

I know this goes without saying but $35,000 a year isn't being tossed out the window to a paid Board Member. He's not being paid to be on the board, he is providing an additional service that is costing each family $35 year. The question becomes, what is each family getting for this $35 and is this $35 in the best interest of Lakeville Hockey?

I see there are some clinics being run, some dryland stuff being done and I also seem to recall a introduction to hockey for newer kids. This all seems to be in the best interest of LHA. These aren't normal board member responsibilities and probably come at a price. The do benefit the association as a whole.

Why doubt the board on what they thought was a good decision at the time? I'm sure he didn't vote on his own $35,000 (LHA's conflict of interest).

As to his character, who hasn't made a mistake and gone through some tough stuff. Leave the guy alone. The police weren't involved and neither were the courts. Give the guy a break. I have not met him, I've heard good and bad....but the legal system wasn't involved so let it go!

[mnhcp]

I think I will drive down to the next meeting from Woodbury. It sounds like it may be a HOOT of a meeting!!!!

Is your concession stands open or should I bring my own popcorn?

As far a the $35 dollars...sounds like a great deal!!! $35 and your child gets to attend all the clinics. NOT BAD!!!!

Wait....Does the $35 fee not include the clinic or is that EXTRA dollars?!?!?!?!

(Houston...We have a problem!!!!)

See you next month!!!

I know this goes without saying but $35,000 a year isn't being tossed out the window to a paid Board Member. He's not being paid to be on the board, he is providing an additional service that is costing each family $35 year. The question becomes, what is each family getting for this $35 and is this $35 in the best interest of Lakeville Hockey?

I see there are some clinics being run, some dryland stuff being done and I also seem to recall a introduction to hockey for newer kids. This all seems to be in the best interest of LHA. These aren't normal board member responsibilities and probably come at a price. The do benefit the association as a whole.

Why doubt the board on what they thought was a good decision at the time? I'm sure he didn't vote on his own $35,000 (LHA's conflict of interest).

As to his character, who hasn't made a mistake and gone through some tough stuff. Leave the guy alone. The police weren't involved and neither were the courts. Give the guy a break. I have not met him, I've heard good and bad....but the legal system wasn't involved so let it go!

Good point. But since no one has told US anything different I'm going to give the board the benefit of the doubt.

Sure, I could be wrong.

I've been told never to assume but I'd like to trust that the board (as I know some of them) made a good decision on this expenditure.

So has someone asked for a job description for the $35k. Might the profits from clinics go back to the association or be split in some way? Maybe there's x amount of income from the new guys duties that now offset this expense maybe producing even a profit?

I still like to assume the best decision was made rather then the worst. I can't see why getting an answer to this has been so difficult for you?