Is Rochester Red the 12th team in the D9 Peewee A playoffs?

[Mnhockeys]

I'm not trying to put Roch down. I just amazing that an assocation thinks it can do what ever it wants. Who do they think they are? What gives them the right to pick and choose? if they want to pick and choose they SHOULDN'T be elgible for playoff hockey. Usual dominance, like I said before, at the A levels they are have some competion. They are creating their own perception. Im just reading the wrinting on the walls!!!!

They call the shots right now for the most part because they are far and away the LARGEST association. They have 8 teams at PeeWees including 2 A teams, 12 teams at squirts.

Also, over the last two years (not counting this year), they only played D9 teams 7 times ( 2010 - Luverne 10-0, Albert Lea 12-0, Mankato 5-0 (they were 31-4-6 and lost in the finals of regionals to go to state to EP) (2009 - Red Wing 5-1, Owatonna 3-2, Owatonna 7-2, Red Wing 7-0).

They don't want to play this type of competition on a yearly basis SOLELY because one year like this year, one team in D9 is capable of giving them a good game.

Have never seen anyone defending something so vigorously and with such detailed numbers ... Frederick and the rest was simply questioning the abnormality of this exception. The explanation that this is a good thing for Roch Reds as well as teams from D9 and regionals, does not go far.

[nodumpnochase]

I just checked Mankato's schedule... they are 26-5-2. They have not played anyone in the top 40 teams.

They beat Rochester Gold 12-0 and Rochester Black 13-2, as well as other blowouts against them. They beat Rochester Red at least twice, but they have lost to Sibley and Eastview, both average teams at PeeWee A at best.

Mankato is competitive, they have not even attempted to play a top 40 team. If I was in Mankato, I'd be demanding change.

Sounds like they need a new coach to schedule some tougher games.

[Chalk_Talk]

I just checked Mankato's schedule... they are 26-5-2. They have not played anyone in the top 40 teams.

They beat Rochester Gold 12-0 and Rochester Black 13-2, as well as other blowouts against them. They beat Rochester Red at least twice, but they have lost to Sibley and Eastview, both average teams at PeeWee A at best.

Mankato is competitive, they have not even attempted to play a top 40 team. If I was in Mankato, I'd be demanding change.

Sounds like they need a new coach to schedule some tougher games.

Looking at their schedule they have played
14 district games
16 tour games
that leaves
3 games

Nodumpnochase..Welcome to the board, if you are trying to throw a cheap shot at me by calling me the coach, egg is on your face. Association likes to play around 35 games. So before you start calling for coaches heads that you know nothing about, I would watch what I say. If you are calling for a coaches head with that record, I don't care who they are playing, you haven't been around hockey very long.

[HasBeen20]

[quote="Chalk_Talk"][quote="nodumpnochase"][quote="Concerned Hockey Coach"]I just checked Mankato's schedule... they are 26-5-2. They have not played anyone in the top 40 teams.

They beat Rochester Gold 12-0 and Rochester Black 13-2, as well as other blowouts against them. They beat Rochester Red at least twice, but they have lost to Sibley and Eastview, both average teams at PeeWee A at best.

Mankato is competitive, they have not even attempted to play a top 40 team. If I was in Mankato, I'd be demanding change.[/quote]

Sounds like they need a new coach to schedule some tougher games.[/quote]

Just peeked at Kato's website, seriously, if that is their record they need to play some stiffer competition. Perhaps mix in a scrimmage or tournament with a top 20 team?


Looking at their schedule they have played
14 district games
16 tour games
that leaves
3 games

Nodumpnochase..Welcome to the board, if you are trying to throw a cheap shot at me by calling me the coach, egg is on your face. Association likes to play around 35 games. So before you start calling for coaches heads that you know nothing about, I would watch what I say. If you are calling for a coaches head with that record, I don't care who they are playing, you haven't been around hockey very long.[/quote]

[frederick61]

Fred: Everything has now been posted. D9 got it right. All is good with the world!

So D9 got it right. There are a 107 peewee A teams playing hockey this year. One team, Rochester Red, chose not to follow the rules but to play their own game. D9 allowed that to happen. Then as a reward, they gave the Rochester Red the #1 seed in the East Division because they “mailed in” their credentials. Such arrogance!

Now the Rochester Black and Albert Lea, both teams that earned the right to be in the double elimination tourney have to play each other to get in. The Rochester Gold team has to beat Red Wing to get what they had earned over the past three months. But, ah, yes. The Gold, the Black, the Albert Lea's are really B1 teams playing in a B1 league. The Red are the only legitimate peewee A team.

The Rochester Red thought the D9 teams were “not worthy” and now they plan to step through them to take a regional seed. Then the Red get to play “real competition”.

This was all done in the last minute. There is more transparency at the CIA then at D9 on this matter.

D9 should create a “real peewee A” league next year. I even have a title for it. They can call it the D9 Classic Lake Conference. They might even attract the half a dozen or so other “real peewee A” teams.

This really stinks. In D9, a 150 or so kids played their hearts out. When the scoreboard lit up at the end of the season, they thought they had won. They trusted the adults.

I hope that someone lodges a grievance that keeps the rule breakers out of the South Regional. That is the only way to bring fairness back.

[itsjustkidshockey]

I have to agree with Fred on this debate. The ironic point missing in all of this is that Rochester Red hasn't provided competition to the teams they want to play and would be hard pressed to find quality teams wanting to play them at this point! I find it surprising that they are so proud of their team but yet haven't posted a score since early December.

Bottom line is that there are many teams disappointed with the district that the hockey monopoly has placed them in - but yet they still play the schedule because "Quality" districts don't allow teams to go independent.

Unfortunately D9 does not have quality leadership which is a sad statement to the quality kids who have played their hearts out this year only to get betrayed by selfish leaders.

Where is big brother when you need them? MN Hockey needs to take a stand on this subject now, otherwise it opens up a loophole for other associations to jump through in order to play an independent schedule. How can it be allowed for one organization and not opened up to others?

Elliot, if you're listening what are your thoughts????

[BadgerBob82]

Fred: The longer you go on about the Roch Red, I am trying to figure out if you have a dog in the race or just commenting on fairness? This arrangement was made long ago. There was never going to be 8 teams seeded without play down games. You are having a hard time understanding that. That is why LuVerne came in as a guest was Roch Red was not playing league games. So pass your complaints to LuVerne.

I would ask that all concerned people petition MN Hockey and get Rochester out of D9 and back into D8 where they belong.

[frederick61]

Fred: The longer you go on about the Roch Red, I am trying to figure out if you have a dog in the race or just commenting on fairness? This arrangement was made long ago. There was never going to be 8 teams seeded without play down games. You are having a hard time understanding that. That is why LuVerne came in as a guest was Roch Red was not playing league games. So pass your complaints to LuVerne.

I would ask that all concerned people petition MN Hockey and get Rochester out of D9 and back into D8 where they belong.

The Rochester Red's own February schedule showed no plans to travel to Mankato to play in the D9 tourney on February 3rd That was a week ago. At the same time, the D9 site had an 8-team playoff format with no play-in games.

Why did the Red's schedule show they were not going to play in the D9 tourney if it was decided a long time ago the Red would be in the D9 playoffs? Why did D9 change their tourney format and publish a 12 team format earlier this week?

Why did D9 publish a single standings for D9 the last few days and now change it back to two divisions today? Why was Rochester Red given the #1 seed in the D9 playoffs when they did not participate in the D9 regular season? Why is Rochester Red insisting on playing in the playoffs against (as many on this thread have said) D9 teams that really should be B1 teams?

If I were D8, I wouldn't accept Rochester back. I would petition Minnesota Hockey to have them excluded from the South Regional.

The Rochester Red adults involved are being selfish. They will move on this year or next and leave a pile of rotten fish for people who truly want to see youth hockey prosper in this state that remain.

As for D9, fish or cut bait. Either D9 has a peewee A league or it is a B1 league. If it is a peewee A league, act as a peewee A league. Don't let selfish people run a muck and ruin what has been a good league when you were D4.

D9 must treat all associations as being equal and not give preferential treatment to one association. It is important that the kids and parents of the 11 other D9 teams be recognized in D9 eyes as peewee A teams. It is the best D9 has to offer at that level. It elevates the kids, their parents, and their communities and in doing so creates interest in the sport.

That is how you build hockey in southern Minnesota. D9 has to guard the charter they have been given or they will have no future.

This whole situation stinks.

[hocmom]

Don't forget that by telling Roch Red that they must a D9 schedule, you are also telling the other teams in the league that they must play Roch Red twice each. I understand the value of playing up, but how high is up?

Fred...you are grasping at straws with the conspiracy thing. This goes back to the scheduling meetings and league formation.

[Concerned Hockey Coach]

First of all, I'm amazed at you Frederick61 and your disdain for Rochester and any other association trying to develop its players.

Also, why have you not bashed Luverne Frederick? Do you know someone there? Perhaps you should not write about D9 in your post or else many devoted readers of your blog will simply roll our eyes understanding your bias. Please just stop for yours and all of our sakes.

The Rochester Red's own February schedule showed no plans to travel to Mankato to play in the D9 tourney on February 3rd That was a week ago. At the same time, the D9 site had an 8-team playoff format with no play-in games.

Why did the Red's schedule show they were not going to play in the D9 tourney if it was decided a long time ago the Red would be in the D9 playoffs?

Are you their website manager? Our website is not 100% updated and is run by volunteers. Maybe they didn't know? Maybe they knew that technically the other D9 teams could petition MN hockey to keep them out - BUT THEN IT DIDN'T HAPPEN because obviously the rest of D9 doesn't care. Seriously, there has been posts from people who have said that this has been agreed to by everyone. Are you calling them liars? Or are you just annoyed that you wrote something based on faulty info in your blog and now you look like you weren't in the know?

Why did D9 change their tourney format and publish a 12 team format earlier this week?

Maybe because D9 had a meeting and decided to. How is that Rochester Red's fault? Perhaps D9 as a whole SHUTTERED at the thought of not having a decent team like Rochester Red coming out of its district. Since there are 3 or 4 seeds, perhaps the teams are fine with being #2? Perhaps you just don't know or don't care about the facts?

Why did D9 publish a single standings for D9 the last few days and now change it back to two divisions today? Why was Rochester Red given the #1 seed in the D9 playoffs when they did not participate in the D9 regular season? Why is Rochester Red insisting on playing in the playoffs against (as many on this thread have said) D9 teams that really should be B1 teams?

Did you seriously ask the last question??? Can you blame Rochester Red for wanting to compete in the regionals? Do you, with all your great PeeWee A mindpower, seriously think that Rochester Red will not come out of a district that has 3 or 4 spots for the regionals? Do you think a team like Rochester Black that has been destroyed by teams possessing any talent at all are entitled to regional births?

If I were D8, I wouldn't accept Rochester back. I would petition Minnesota Hockey to have them excluded from the South Regional.

We know, you have Rochester and any association that attempts to not play "neighborhood" hockey apparently... sad.

The Rochester Red adults involved are being selfish. They will move on this year or next and leave a pile of rotten fish for people who truly want to see youth hockey prosper in this state that remain.

I'm fine with them being selfish... what duty does Rochester Red have to its fellow district teams other than to follow the rules??? Where have the rules been broken Mr. Frederick??? You have only slung around accusations rather than specific rules that have been broken.

As for D9, fish or cut bait. Either D9 has a peewee A league or it is a B1 league. If it is a peewee A league, act as a peewee A league. Don't let selfish people run a muck and ruin what has been a good league when you were D4.

I'm sorry, but this doesn't make sense. What's wrong with Rochester gauging the talent in its district and deciding where to place its teams based on that rather than some arbitrary A/B1/B2 distinction??? Kudos to Rochester for caring first and foremost about its players' development and not appeasing the casual fans.

D9 must treat all associations as being equal and not give preferential treatment to one association. It is important that the kids and parents of the 11 other D9 teams be recognized in D9 eyes as peewee A teams. It is the best D9 has to offer at that level. It elevates the kids, their parents, and their communities and in doing so creates interest in the sport.

Why is it important to be "recognized in D9 eyes as PeeWee A teams"? Why? Isn't the focus on development and having fun? How do you know what the kids think down there? How do you know that the kids weren't happy as punch to not have to play Rochester's top A team two times in a year and instead, get to play Rochester kids who are of their talent level and play for a shot at the regular season title? Why do you think they care if the best team, Rochester Red, gets to go to regionals? I think you have distorted picture of the PeeWee A players mind. They just want to have fun and not have games be 0-10 on a regular basis.

That is how you build hockey in southern Minnesota. D9 has to guard the charter they have been given or they will have no future.

I don't think the future of MN hockey rests in the existence of D9 hockey... wow.

This whole situation stinks.

You said this already. Any specific facts that can quote rules that have been broken?

Why do you think you know better than the powers that be of D9 who approved all this????

Wow...

[Concerned Hockey Coach]

Have never seen anyone defending something so vigorously and with such detailed numbers ... Frederick and the rest was simply questioning the abnormality of this exception. The explanation that this is a good thing for Roch Reds as well as teams from D9 and regionals, does not go far.

Took me 5 mins at myhockeyrankings.com to get the info.

I feel very strongly about this issue, which is not simply about whether or not Rochester Red should or should not play in D9 regionals.

I love MN hockey and love how we do not have AAA hockey here in the winter - yet... IF we tell the best teams in MN that they MUST play in a district that ties up their games against teams they consistently blow away - what do you think the hockey parents are going to do??? I say give them an avenue within MN hockey to have their child challenged and compete against the best teams if they are good enough to get the best teams attention and get into the best tourneys.

I cannot stress enough as a coach, the 6-0 or worse blowouts are HUGE setbacks toward getting players to play as a team, to hit, to forecheck properly... but most of all to compete on every inch of the ice - b/c they know they don't have to when they aren't playing talent that challenges them.

The same thing goes with getting beat 0-7... in those games my bottom half players NEVER touch the puck and get a defeatist attitude... usually before the game even starts... this is not good. Kids must play against and with kids of their general talent level on a consistent basis to best develop.

Its just the truth...

[BadgerBob82]

Excellent rationale Coach!

I'll go you one further. I think it is unrealistic for most associations in D9 to field teams at the "A" level. As long as all D9 teams follow suit, and there are other associations to play at the bottom A level, fine. But MN Hockey provides B1, B2 and C levels for a reason.

Some people just want to say their kid is on an "A" team.

[frederick61]

Don't forget that by telling Roch Red that they must a D9 schedule, you are also telling the other teams in the league that they must play Roch Red twice each. I understand the value of playing up, but how high is up?

Fred...you are grasping at straws with the conspiracy thing. This goes back to the scheduling meetings and league formation.

If it goes back to the scheduling meetings and league formation, why wait until four days before the play-in games to announce the changes and acknowledge that the Rochester Red are in the tourney?

Without having any personal knowledge of what happened, I can only suggest a possible senario as to what has happened in D9 over the past month. This scenario is the best face saving one for D9.

Logic says that the Rochester Red did not want to play a D9 schedule because they would be put in the D9 East along with the Rochester Gold and the Rochester Black. Their peewee A team would have then play their peewee B1 teams twice.

Logic also says they hosted the South Regional in part because they were angling to get D4's #2 seed to the South Regional as hosts. When the D4 #2 seed went to a play-in game in early January (it showed up on D8 play-offs postings), that eliminated any hopes of the Red using that seed.

In the middle of January, D9 posted the 8-team tourney showing no play in games. D9 reps and others decided in late January to expand the tourney to a 12 team tourney and added the play-in games. That move allowed the Rochester Red to get back into the tourney.

For some reason, early this week D9 posted the peewee A league as a single league. Then yesterday, they seeded the teams and gave Rochester Red the easiest path to the regional even though they had played no D9 games.

Other teams have tried to do what the Rochester Red is doing. They have failed because the District Director would not let them. If everybody involved in D9 and Rochester have done so out innocence, then let Minnesota Hockey hear a grievance and put it to bed. But they wont because they know they are wrong.

Finally, Rochester has been proposing a split in peewee A hockey, pushing for a super league. This situation smells fishy.

[Concerned Hockey Coach]

For some reason, early this week D9 posted the peewee A league as a single league. Then yesterday, they seeded the teams and gave Rochester Red the easiest path to the regional even though they had played no D9 games.

You're kidding right... I'm sure that Rochester Red would not oppose being the LAST place team if that was a condition of playing due to Frederick being dictator/king of D9 hockey. Frederick, do you think that it would be fair to the other play in team or the number 1 team who had to play Rochester Red in the first game???

Other teams have tried to do what the Rochester Red is doing. They have failed because the District Director would not let them. If everybody involved in D9 and Rochester have done so out innocence, then let Minnesota Hockey hear a grievance and put it to bed. But they wont because they know they are wrong.

It's not my understanding that MN hockey can over rule D9's decision, let alone a decision that all of D9 appears fine with, minus Frederick, who appears to have vested interests in D9.

Finally, Rochester has been proposing a split in peewee A hockey, pushing for a super league. This situation smells fishy.

This is for another discussion... there are lots of reasons to change the present PeeWee A setup.

Frederick, is there another District even CLOSE to being as bad as D9? EDIT*** Ok, D4 yes, but they don't have a power base to produce any team of distinction so its irrelevant AND their teams all play the regular season in D9 and D5****

This year D15 has GR dominating, but that's not going to be the case year in and year out. Rochester is geographically different than other cities in other Districts. It has over 100,000 in population and has 9 Bantam teams, 8 PeeWee A teams and 12 squirt teams, not to mention 13 girls teams. Surrounding Rochester are communities that are small and do not have the culture of hockey embedded in them comparable to the north, or comparable to their yester years even (Austin, Albert Lea, Red Wing).

Duluth is the only other city outside the metro that is large enough to theoretically produce the number of hockey players Rochester does - but they don't. They have 5 bantam teams, 5 peewee teams and 10- squirt teams. AND Duluth has Cloquet, Hermantown, and only two others teams it has to play in league play. Cloquet and Hermantown are competitive on a yearly basis.

I think Rochester should be applauded by refusing to allow MN hockey's arbitrary district drawings to force it to subject its kids to sub par competition. Kudos to Rochester for making the best decisions for its kids and ensuring that their kids are playing the appropriate talent level, whatever the "labels" applied... B1/A/B2... they mean different things to different associations.

[dogeatdog1]

For some reason, early this week D9 posted the peewee A league as a single league. Then yesterday, they seeded the teams and gave Rochester Red the easiest path to the regional even though they had played no D9 games.

You're kidding right... I'm sure that Rochester Red would not oppose being the LAST place team if that was a condition of playing due to Frederick being dictator/king of D9 hockey. Frederick, do you think that it would be fair to the other play in team or the number 1 team who had to play Rochester Red in the first game???

Other teams have tried to do what the Rochester Red is doing. They have failed because the District Director would not let them. If everybody involved in D9 and Rochester have done so out innocence, then let Minnesota Hockey hear a grievance and put it to bed. But they wont because they know they are wrong.

It's not my understanding that MN hockey can over rule D9's decision, let alone a decision that all of D9 appears fine with, minus Frederick, who appears to have vested interests in D9.

Finally, Rochester has been proposing a split in peewee A hockey, pushing for a super league. This situation smells fishy.

This is for another discussion... there are lots of reasons to change the present PeeWee A setup.

Frederick, is there another District even CLOSE to being as bad as D9? EDIT*** Ok, D4 yes, but they don't have a power base to produce any team of distinction so its irrelevant AND their teams all play the regular season in D9 and D5****

This year D15 has GR dominating, but that's not going to be the case year in and year out. Rochester is geographically different than other cities in other Districts. It has over 100,000 in population and has 9 Bantam teams, 8 PeeWee A teams and 12 squirt teams, not to mention 13 girls teams. Surrounding Rochester are communities that are small and do not have the culture of hockey embedded in them comparable to the north, or comparable to their yester years even (Austin, Albert Lea, Red Wing).

Duluth is the only other city outside the metro that is large enough to theoretically produce the number of hockey players Rochester does - but they don't. They have 5 bantam teams, 5 peewee teams and 10- squirt teams. AND Duluth has Cloquet, Hermantown, and only two others teams it has to play in league play. Cloquet and Hermantown are competitive on a yearly basis.

I think Rochester should be applauded by refusing to allow MN hockey's arbitrary district drawings to force it to subject its kids to sub par competition. Kudos to Rochester for making the best decisions for its kids and ensuring that their kids are playing the appropriate talent level, whatever the "labels" applied... B1/A/B2... they mean different things to different associations.

Morehead seems to do just fine are they not comparable to Rochester? I a sure that they blow a lot of teams out and are going about it by how? putting two peewee A teams together? If Roch is serious about developmet they would play by the rules. What would D6 say if Edina pulled their top 15 and play an independent schedule then come back and after getting the benefit of playing top teams all year come back with that type of experience and roll through the playoffs. You will have a hard time convincing me and a lot of this board that the Rochester team isn't a bunch of self centered parents thinking that they should get preferential treatment because they are from Rochester? Take a long hard look at the other teams before you start talking that you are all about development.

[old goalie85]

Like the maroon and gold bantam leauge ?

[Concerned Hockey Coach]

Morehead seems to do just fine are they not comparable to Rochester? I a sure that they blow a lot of teams out and are going about it by how? putting two peewee A teams together? If Roch is serious about developmet they would play by the rules. What would D6 say if Edina pulled their top 15 and play an independent schedule then come back and after getting the benefit of playing top teams all year come back with that type of experience and roll through the playoffs. You will have a hard time convincing me and a lot of this board that the Rochester team isn't a bunch of self centered parents thinking that they should get preferential treatment because they are from Rochester? Take a long hard look at the other teams before you start talking that you are all about development.

Yes Moorhead is usually comparable to Rochester in talent, but we're not talking about that. We're talking about D9 v. other districts. D15 has Alexandria and Brainerd who field good teams on a regular basis... I don't think you have looked at just how bad the D9 teams are... go look and then ask yourself if you think Moorhead would benefit from being required to play just under 20 games a year against that talent level.

I'm sorry, I really don't think you've followed this argument and you are cherry picking one thing I have said without context if you think that I was slighting Moorhead. I applaud Moorhead for having an A1 and A2 in their district rather than having the A2 be a B1 who dominates its district. Do you think that Moorhead should have been forced to have two equal A teams?

And the Edina thing... have you looked at District 6??? Do you think there is a lack of talent there? What "independent" schedule could Edina have that would give them that quality of play on a regular basis?

Please think before you post.

[Marty McSorely]

It's D9's business if your not a member shut up....if you are a member, show up at the meeting and voice your concern.

Fred...your losing it... you must not have anything better to do. Drop it and continue to write about Pee Wee hockey.

[dogeatdog1]

Morehead seems to do just fine are they not comparable to Rochester? I a sure that they blow a lot of teams out and are going about it by how? putting two peewee A teams together? If Roch is serious about developmet they would play by the rules. What would D6 say if Edina pulled their top 15 and play an independent schedule then come back and after getting the benefit of playing top teams all year come back with that type of experience and roll through the playoffs. You will have a hard time convincing me and a lot of this board that the Rochester team isn't a bunch of self centered parents thinking that they should get preferential treatment because they are from Rochester? Take a long hard look at the other teams before you start talking that you are all about development.

Yes Moorhead is usually comparable to Rochester in talent, but we're not talking about that. We're talking about D9 v. other districts. D15 has Alexandria and Brainerd who field good teams on a regular basis... I don't think you have looked at just how bad the D9 teams are... go look and then ask yourself if you think Moorhead would benefit from being required to play just under 20 games a year against that talent level.

I'm sorry, I really don't think you've followed this argument and you are cherry picking one thing I have said without context if you think that I was slighting Moorhead. I applaud Moorhead for having an A1 and A2 in their district rather than having the A2 be a B1 who dominates its district. Do you think that Moorhead should have been forced to have two equal A teams?

And the Edina thing... have you looked at District 6??? Do you think there is a lack of talent there? What "independent" schedule could Edina have that would give them that quality of play on a regular basis?

Please think before you post.

My example of Edina was pointing out the absurd... If you really are not being selfish and thinking about development you would do one of two things. Make two equal peewee A teams and play in the district. (Your association would reap the benes when you have twice as many top end kids to pick from at bantams) or Play your independent schedule and step down at the end of the season and let the teams that fought it out all year in districts fight it out to go to regions. It would be like inviting the fire to a distrit tourney after they went out and played a AAA schedule all year long would it not? Again Selfish parents that want to say Hey My kid went to state when he was a peewee!!! Nice pin to put on your chest? cmon..

Next thing I will see out of your post after state will be we are the 8th best team in the state! When in all reality you are about 40 th (acording to my hockey rankings) even with your superstar independent schedule you can't crack the top 20?. Might want to retink your development strategy. It appears that your team hasn't been developing after all ? And I rarely post without thinking

[dogeatdog1]

It's D9's business if your not a member shut up....if you are a member, show up at the meeting and voice your concern.

Fred...your losing it... you must not have anything better to do. Drop it and continue to write about Pee Wee hockey.

Marty back to your old tricks? Wanna drop the gloves?

I have no dog in the hunt but think that it is a good discussion. Lots of funny things go on in hockey board rooms that need fetchin out on a board like this.

[Concerned Hockey Coach]

My example of Edina was pointing out the absurd...

Well why not acknowledge that there may be times when MN hockey, because of geography and lack of competition, might want to allow MN hockey teams to stay within the governance of MN hockey and play an independent schedule. As my earlier posts point out, Rochester and SE MN are a unique pair that consistently results in an A team playing against B1 players. I think that all districts outside of the cities should have a means to allow a team that is leaps and bounds better than the rest of its district to play an independent schedule and avoid the 10-0 blowouts on a regular basis. Those games help non one.

If you really are not being selfish and thinking about development you would do one of two things. Make two equal peewee A teams and play in the district. (Your association would reap the benes when you have twice as many top end kids to pick from at bantams) or Play your independent schedule and step down at the end of the season and let the teams that fought it out all year in districts fight it out to go to regions.

Whew... ok, where to start. First, how does making two equal PeeWee A teams aid in the development of kids 1-10 and kids 25 - 30? If this is a novel question to you, see prior posts that entirely talk about the subject. (The theory supporting why we have A/B1 teams and why most associations CHOOSE to have one A team rather than two.)

Second, why is playing an Independent Schedule BAD??? Can someone answer this please? All of D9 got on board and agreed! It allowed Rochester to have two A2 teams that didn't have to play their A1 team. This is the best of both worlds! Why do you want regular beatings of 10+ -0? Ughhh its so frustrating thinking that their may be hockey board members or coaches who think like you do Dog!

It would be like inviting the fire to a distrit tourney after they went out and played a AAA schedule all year long would it not?

Only if a MN District approved it, and MN hockey allowed it. You know that MN hockey rules and D9 ALLOWED what you're protesting right?

Again Selfish parents that want to say Hey My kid went to state when he was a peewee!!! Nice pin to put on your chest? cmon..

Yeah, doing what's best for the development of your son or daughter sure is selfish... and then wanting your kid to play at the State tourney (IF they can beat Rosemount/Farmington/Woodbury etc) is soooo selfish. Wow... the hypocrisy is self evident with you. You hate Edina too don't you because they are good! Hate MN made too? Sure you do.

Next thing I will see out of your post after state will be we are the 8th best team in the state! When in all reality you are about 40 th (acording to my hockey rankings) even with your superstar independent schedule you can't crack the top 20?. Might want to retink your development strategy. It appears that your team hasn't been developing after all ?

I am a PeeWee A hockey coach in the Cities... what are you talking about??? Way to lash out personally at a bunch of 12 and 13 year olds you poor person... Pathetic.

[BadgerBob82]

Comparing Rochester to the FIRE? Nobody in D9 wanted to play Rochester Red except Mankato. Follow the history, D8 threw Rochester out in the name of travel time/mileage. D8 provided very competitive games for Rochester, at the Girls 10-14's and Boys A-B1-B2-C's. Rochester never asked for special treatment from D8, just to stay in for providing all levels of play good competition.

Thrown into D9, Rochester laid out the teams and agreements were made for the top teams.

For Fredrick and others to debate what is factual history is laughable.

I have to wonder if Fredrick might be a coach or parent of one of the D9 Pee-Wee teams? The same set of circumstances unfolded at the Bantam A level and not a word is being said? Only the Pee-Wee level?

[frederick61]

Unlike Rochester, Moorhead followed the rules (or lost their argument with the D15 District Director). Moorhead did pick their top 15 players and made that team the Moorhead Black (some call it the A1). They took the next 15 and entered it as an A team in D15. That team is the Moorhead Orange.

The Black played a 13 game schedule, the other D15 teams played a 14 game schedule. But then Moorhead did something foolish. To avoid the Black playing the Orange, they had the Orange forfeit their two games. They did not realize that both teams would lose their "unfairplay" points.

Both the Black and the Orange are in the D15 tourney and they may play each other. But the Moorhead Black played a D15 schedule, something the Rochester Red should have done, and have the right to be there.

I believe one of the underlying fears in all of this is the strong desire that Moorhead and Rochester have to not have their A1 team play their A2 team for fear of having the A2 beat the A1. If I were running an association and that happened, I would be smiling ear to ear thinking of how strong the next year bantam and peewee a teams would be.

As to Moorhead dominating D15, that has not happened. For you short timers who are only here until your kid moves on (and there is nothing wrong with that), three years ago, in D15, the top team was the Little Falls Flyers. They made the state tourney. Moorhead struggled that year.

I can list the district champions for the past 5 years in all the districts. There are three districts that tend to be dominated by one or two associations. D3 has been sort of dominated by Wayzata and OMG. But 3 to 4 years ago, Hopkins challenged and last year Orono beat out OMG and went to the state. D6 has Edina and Eden Prairie every year. Burnsville has had good teams the last few years, but has yet to get by Edina in the district or regional playoffs. Apple Valley knocked Edina out three or four years ago.

The last district of the three is D12. In D12, Grand Rapids has dominated. The rest of the districts at the peewee A level have had multiple champions.

Finally, I get angry when people say that a conference like D9 is a B1. That is an arrogant view. The D9 associations designate their teams and most chose to go the A level. That is great. The same rational that the Rochester Red is based on is what these associations are seeking to achieve. Playing tougher competition aids in the development of their kids.

The D9 teams as D4 teams have made the state tourney the past few years. Owatonna made the State Tourney in 2009. Faribault made the state tourney a few years ago.years. Rochester has not been in the state tourney for a few years. The Owatonna and Faribault kids went to the peewee A tourney as peewee A champs and skated on the same ice competing with the Edinas and Wayzatas.

In the Little Falls, Owatonna, Faribault, and Orono kids minds they were skating with their peers.

That is what makes Minnesota hockey great. Then the fans of these communities feel great and the teams from Mankato, Albert Lea, Austin, and even Rochester say if they can do it, so can we. Isnt that what it should be?

The last point is the relevance of a "super team" concept at the peewee A level. The point is that it is irrelevent. The "super team" concept is aimed at superior play and that comes from improved team play. Great team hockey at the peewee A level is a myth. It exists in some teams for spurts and then disappears.

You can not bottle it as a team and pass the bottle to the next level. It is still individual development. The kids are too young and even the best of them can struggle at the bantam level as their body grows. The kids that succeed are those that have a "hockey sense" (being aware of the game situations) and good skills.

Few teams ever come out of peewee A hockey and have the same domination at the bantam level. Edina and Wayzata are examples. Just compare their bantam successes against their peewee A success. Their bantams are good, but not dominant. Kids grow.

[BadgerBob82]

Can anybody tell me another association besides LAKEVILLE that fields two or more A teams? (I understand Moorhead has a PW A2 team?) Also excluding the Squirt level as I believe Duluth has 6-8 A teams?

[BadgerBob82]

Fredrick: I will wager you a nickel that Rochester will only field 1 A team next year. They will play a D9 league schedule. They will field 2 B teams that will be comparable in ability to the D9 A teams. They will likely dominate D9 league play. Hopefully, all Rochester teams will advance to the Regional and State Tournaments and you can feel good about having shared the ice with a Rochester team 2 times.

Hey, the score of every game is tied for a while, right?