Is Rochester Red the 12th team in the D9 Peewee A playoffs?

[dogeatdog1]

Isn't it the D9 policy this year that teams who beat up teams should not have to play those teams except when they want to get into the regionals so they can play teams worthy of competition?

You celebrate the improvement of teams like the Gold but do not acknowledge that can happen to other D9 associations by playing the Rochester Red.

That's a good point. A 12-0 game may have led someone to believe that Mankato was too good for D9 or that Rochester Gold wasn't good enough, and there never would have been a 5-2 game. If sports is only about the best ONLY playing the best, then it's time to apply the AA and A levels of youth hockey.

It is a sport, and as such, barring a tie or a rainout, one team will likely lose while the other wins. It is tiring to hear parents, coaches, and administrators continue to impress the rest of us regarding how terrible it is for their obviously superior children, superior teams, and superior programs to have to stoop to a smaller programs level - what a waste of time it is. If it is that much of an inconvenience for the super associations, then maybe we should let them have their little AA club, so they can exclude the rest of us from it. Personally, I'm finding it a little hard to believe that Rochester Red couldn't have worked a dozen or so games into their schedule to play the associations that are close to them geographically and still managed to play 30 games or so against teams that were worthy to play them.

Inigo - you are a thoughtful person from you postings... I'm happy to have your thoughts here.

I completely agree that in all but the most extreme circumstances, a team should not opt out of district regular season play OR be allowed to opt out - and I don't think most refusals to allow an opt out will result in a new AAA league.

This case has me citing the extreme circumstances. Have you had a chance to check out the teams in D9? We're talking about B1 teams at best - other than Mankato and Owatonna, but Owatonna is down. I honestly don't think any team other than those two would help themselves (or Red) by playing them. I encourage you to go check it out... but in case you're looking for a few stats:

In order of current rank in their District divisions: (Myhockey Ranking and relevant losses)

Northfield (No. 76, losses to Johnson Como and Faribault)
Dodge County (No. 93, losses to Sibley and Crow River 0-11)
Rochester Bl. (No. 96, losses to Mound 0-4, Tartan 0-11)
Rochester G. (No. 95, losses to Centennial (0-12, Champlin 0-7, Rogers 0-9)
Austin (No. 101, losses to Orono 1-10, Crow River 0-10)
Red Wing (80's, losses to Orono 0-15, Shakopee 0-11)

Other division:

Mankato (No. 55, losses to Spring Lake 0-, Eastview 2-7)
Luverne (No. 66, losses to Como Johnson, Shakopee, FL)
Owatonna (No. 62, losses to Jefferson 0-5, Lakeville S. 3-10)
New Ulm (No. 91, losses to St. Louis Park, Bl. Kennedy)
Albert Lea (No. 99, losses to Centennial 1-15, Champlin 0-11)
Faribault (No. 97, losses to Tartan 0-8, Johnson Como 0-6)

Now, Myhockey Rankings aren't the be all end all, but they are as good as you can get in my experience seeing teams play this year. The scores don't lie.

? for You. How many B1 teams out of the D9 Peewee A teams will end up in Peewee A Regions? Maybe they should give one of the births to D6 so the 4 teams that are in the top 10 in the state have a FAIR shot at winning state? I would hate to be Prior Lake and have to get through edina and EP.....All of your talk about development and how these kids that are B1 level is sickening... Man up and develop the kids by high tempo practices and scheduling scrimmages against top talent outside the district. One might think that the #40th ranked team should be in B1 too. (Now settle down I am just trying to get your goat you don't have to try to rip me)

[Concerned Hockey Coach]

. . .

There's an interesting dynamic for the teams that step up and schedule RR. It changes their week of practice as they prepare for the "big game." Frankly, it can change their whole season as they've now committed to playing in the "big leagues." That's how you help the other members of your District. You've set the bar now urge the others to come along.

The other interesting discussion to come out of this is, should the lower level teams in D9 even have A teams? That's a big question. I think yes. Each association needs to work on recruiting and attract 30 new mite boys and 20 new mite girls for the 2011-2012 season. Don't accept defeat. Grow. Make sure your future is bright. More bodies bring more revenue, more and better volunteers and better teams in the future. It's the only solution. Schedule your non District games and tournaments carefully but try and keep a team at the A level.

Interesting take Observer... I agree with your belief that most associations should do everything they can to have an A team... that being said, it definitely depends on your district. A B1 or B2 level team in D6 or D8 has no business fielding an A team and only hurts its players if they field one... if you get blown out by 75% of your district teams or more, the kids confidence is getting destroyed and they know they are out of their league - no "A" team designation can change that. Perhaps they enjoy telling their friends they are on the "A" team, but that's not why we have "A" teams.

I must respectfully disagree with two things. First, kids don't get "fired up" to play Rochester Red, or in other districts, Edina, Wayzata, EP when they know they are going to get blown out. I have coached a team that has been above average but we still get blown out on average by the top team in our district. The kids DREAD it... they don't play well because they have been beaten by them year in and year out... I've tried every motivational mechanism I have thought of and you know what works the best? Luck... when the other team hits a couple posts or isn't up 3-0 after the first... they are 12-13 year olds you know.

Now, I'm not saying that one or two games like that hurt the team that gets blown out... I think its a wash actually... BUT it doesn't help and for situations like the present D9 situation, where one program has 1,700 kids and plays organizations that probably average 300-400... well you need to get creative.

[hocmom]

The reason to play A in D9 is not because you think you are an A team like Edina is an A team. The reason to play A in d9 is to play the upper team from down the road.

What has been suggested here has only been suggested here. The conversation, other than responses from the d9 pres, has been just that, conversation.

I doubt that the d9 board will alter its thought process because a bunch of guys with too much time on their hands bicker back and forth on some website (I include me). The d9 board will do just what they did this year, they will discuss it in open meetings with the assn reps present, and then decide what is best for the district.

[Concerned Hockey Coach]

? for You. How many B1 teams out of the D9 Peewee A teams will end up in Peewee A Regions? Maybe they should give one of the births to D6 so the 4 teams that are in the top 10 in the state have a FAIR shot at winning state? I would hate to be Prior Lake and have to get through edina and EP.....All of your talk about development and how these kids that are B1 level is sickening... Man up and develop the kids by high tempo practices and scheduling scrimmages against top talent outside the district. One might think that the #40th ranked team should be in B1 too. (Now settle down I am just trying to get your goat you don't have to try to rip me)

Dogger... welcome back. I have no problem with the regional seeding system and that, yes, a team that would have trouble competing with B1 teams in D2, D3, D6, D8, D10, D11, and others is going to make it to the regionals. Just life.

I'm just ignoring your comment about Red being 40th... if you think that they are the same as the teams listed in my other posts (D9 teams outside of Mankato, who appears to be a good team) then there's nothing I can do for you my friend.

[observer]

Why is the Rochester Red record 10-11-1? 22 games total?

http://myhockeyrankings.com/rank.php?y=2010&a=b&v=166

Update your scores. Good coach, weak manager?

[BadgerBob82]

Really Roch Red! Update your scores so "observer" can draw some correlation to the number of games and scores! Had the Red manager been on the ball, their schedule would have included District Play-Offs and Fred's whole theory would have been debunked at the outset!

To hocmom: I understand why most D9 associations field an A team. But, if at the Spring/Summer meeting all of these association reached an agreement that only Mankato, Owatonna and Roch Red would field A teams, the B1 league would be the same caliber teams as if they played at the A level. Only difference is, when they come out of Districts, they would have a solid chance in Regionals against Metro B1 teams and could even get to State.

[Concerned Hockey Coach]

Why is the Rochester Red record 10-11-1? 22 games total?

http://myhockeyrankings.com/rank.php?y=2010&a=b&v=166

Update your scores. Good coach, weak manager?

That's Bantams... you're messing me up!

PeeWee's are Ranked 38th, 10-19-3.

[hocmom]

To hocmom: I understand why most D9 associations field an A team. But, if at the Spring/Summer meeting all of these association reached an agreement that only Mankato, Owatonna and Roch Red would field A teams, the B1 league would be the same caliber teams as if they played at the A level. Only difference is, when they come out of Districts, they would have a solid chance in Regionals against Metro B1 teams and could even get to State.

I don't disagree, yet hard to figure one year to the next. The top seeds from D4/D9 change hands pretty regularly.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think b1/b2 etc is just imaginary anyway. B is B.

[frederick61]

Why is the Rochester Red record 10-11-1? 22 games total?

http://myhockeyrankings.com/rank.php?y=2010&a=b&v=166

Update your scores. Good coach, weak manager?

I followed the Rochester Red through the season. They tried to schedule as many home and away games as possible on the weekend. But I suspect their parents are no different then parents in the Twin Cities when it comes to travel during the week.

They played in three tourneys that I know, their own, Brainerd, and Eden Prairie. They registered a team in the Red Wing tourney, but it became the Rochester Black. To me, if they have played too few games, it is because the parents of the kids on that team did not want to spend the money and the time on the road which is what AAA hockey is all about.

Rochester has been stuck of this vision of excellence and are not willing to split their top players and grow hockey in the southeast and south central. The island that they are on is an island of their own making.

And it shows at the high school level. I did a blog a month ago on a different topic and used the Rochester Bantam A team from the Edina 2007 tourney and broke down what high schools they ended up playing for.

Around 12 players were either seniors or juniors on three different Rochester high school teams. Each three or four players were at the top their teams stats.

The 2007 Rochester bantam A team competed with Edina, Duluth East and Eagan at the bantam level back then. But now Edina, Duluth East, and Eagan have their 12 2007 bantam players playing on their team.

And the three Rochester high schools are having trouble competing with Albert Lea and Mankato West this year.

[little9BigRed]

Frederick61,
The three public high schools are kids made up from the Gold and Black teams, the red team goes to Lourdes.

[PanthersIn2011]

Frederick61,
The three public high schools are kids made up from the Gold and Black teams, the red team goes to Lourdes.

More nonsense and lies.

[hocmom]

Frederick61,
The three public high schools are kids made up from the Gold and Black teams, the red team goes to Lourdes.

More nonsense and lies.

Agreed, lies. The 1st line at Mayo is from Austin...

[little9BigRed]

Now thats funny.

[PanthersIn2011]

Frederick61,
The three public high schools are kids made up from the Gold and Black teams, the red team goes to Lourdes.

More nonsense and lies.

Agreed, lies. The 1st line at Mayo is from Austin...

Very good, hocmom!

Thanks for your years of service to kids playing hockey in D4 and now D9. Thanks for being an independent voice of reason in this thread. And thanks for the chuckle.

[BadgerBob82]

And Mayo's best player is an exchange student from Sweden. And Mankato West's best player was transfered from East after they saw how good he was. And...

[frederick61]

Frederick61,
The three public high schools are kids made up from the Gold and Black teams, the red team goes to Lourdes.

More nonsense and lies.

Agreed, lies. The 1st line at Mayo is from Austin...

Love that. But I have to ask you guys, do you believe that a single team can really act as feeder for the four local high schools or do you believe it's youth focus should be that all the prime hockey hours at Graham and Olmstead every year should be devoted to develop single highly competitive youth hockey teams at each level.

Remember Edina, Wayzata, Eden Prairie, and Eagan do not have this problem.

[Stratal]

Your credibility is loosing its steam real fast. But your hatred for Rochester is very clear.

Scheduling games is a 2 way street did you Call "Red" to schedule any games?

Did you Call "Black"?
Did you Call "Gold"?

Or are you one of those coaches who sit Back and let your team
of 3 wins and 11 loses (in league) players think they may be better then what they are......? B1?

What disservice are you doing "your" kids by playing them above "your" abilities? being outscored 2 to 1 may mean they were a B1 team playing "A" hockey? is that fair that you played "your" kids at a "A" level ? or are you as the coach trying to rationalize how can I make myself (as a coach) better ...it all comes down to 1 thing ....win the games and teach your kids the Fundementals and make them better to play in Pee wee "A" hockey
Your Rationale would of held more Validity if you wouldnt have lost to the "lowly Rochester Black team ....Oh the shame!!!!

[BadgerBob82]

But Fred's point is well taken. Maybe if Rochester had 4 A level teams with hard boundaries for the school they will attend, they might better compete with Class A schools?

[BadgerBob82]

So every Edina kid plays at Edina High? Seems I've heard of some at Benilde, Hill-Murray, Holy Angels etc. Eden Prairie kids attend Benilde, Minnetonka, Chanhassen, etc. Seems to me even the mega-sized associations with only 1 A team send their Bantams to more than one school.

But Fred is right, if you have 4-5 decent players going to a high school each year from Bantams, your HS team will be solid. Then if you are lucky enough to have a stud goalie or prolific scorer, you become better than average. In the Big 9 at least!

Unless you lose kids to Jr's, etc.

[hocmom]

Your credibility is loosing its steam real fast. But your hatred for Rochester is very clear.

Scheduling games is a 2 way street did you Call "Red" to schedule any games?

Did you Call "Black"?
Did you Call "Gold"?

Or are you one of those coaches who sit Back and let your team
of 3 wins and 11 loses (in league) players think they may be better then what they are......? B1?

What disservice are you doing "your" kids by playing them above "your" abilities? being outscored 2 to 1 may mean they were a B1 team playing "A" hockey? is that fair that you played "your" kids at a "A" level ? or are you as the coach trying to rationalize how can I make myself (as a coach) better ...it all comes down to 1 thing ....win the games and teach your kids the Fundementals and make them better to play in Pee wee "A" hockey
Your Rationale would of held more Validity if you wouldnt have lost to the "lowly Rochester Black team ....Oh the shame!!!!

Who is this directed at?

[Stratal]

[quote="hocmom"][quote="Stratal"]Your credibility is loosing its steam real fast. But your hatred for Rochester is very clear.

Scheduling games is a 2 way street did you Call "Red" to schedule any games?

Did you Call "Black"?
Did you Call "Gold"?

Or are you one of those coaches who sit Back and let your team
of 3 wins and 11 loses (in league) players think they may be better then what they are......? B1?

What disservice are you doing "your" kids by playing them above "your" abilities? being outscored 2 to 1 may mean they were a B1 team playing "A" hockey? is that fair that you played "your" kids at a "A" level ? or are you as the coach trying to rationalize how can I make myself (as a coach) better ...it all comes down to 1 thing ....win the games and teach your kids the Fundementals and make them better to play in Pee wee "A" hockey
Your Rationale would of held more Validity if you wouldnt have lost to the "lowly Rochester Black team ....Oh the shame!!!![/quote]

Who is this directed at?[/quote]

Fred

[hocmom]

Or are you one of those coaches who sit Back and let your team
of 3 wins and 11 loses (in league) players think they may be better then what they are......? B1?

I have become convinced that Fred is not a coach from D9. Please don't place his words in the mouth of our D9 Peewee or Bantam coaches. Unless I hear otherwise, I don't think the stake holders are complaining. Complaints are from outsiders.

[PanthersIn2011]

But I have to ask you guys, do you believe that a single team can really act as feeder for the four local high schools or do you believe it's youth focus should be that all the prime hockey hours at Graham and Olmstead every year should be devoted to develop single highly competitive youth hockey teams at each level.

More lies.

All three of the A teams calendars are on the RYHA website. A quick glance shows that their practice hours are pretty equivalent in both quantity and "primeness" of the ice hours.

Admins: Just because this guy writes a lot of words about PW hockey, why is he allowed to continue this obviously personal attack against an association that is abiding by the rules of Minnesota Hockey. Enough already.

[karl(east)]

This topic seems to have run its course. Enough attacks from people on both sides...