Just thinking out loud.....

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Tue May 17, 2011 2:54 pm

Orangey- Nope, Bernie's never met my kids. I happen to know Bernie from the late 70's early 80's. [FL highschool] I don't care who has the rule. It's stupid, the only thing worse is a coach making sure the MITE has to sit out ten mins. of a YOUTH hockey game.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Tue May 17, 2011 3:11 pm

I would like to add that getting cut from his machine, or Fire teams are nothing to be hatefull about. They have some of Mn best little players.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Tue May 17, 2011 3:14 pm

old goalie85 wrote:Orangey- Nope, Bernie's never met my kids. I happen to know Bernie from the late 70's early 80's. [FL highschool] I don't care who has the rule. It's stupid, the only thing worse is a coach making sure the MITE has to sit out ten mins. of a YOUTH hockey game.

The coach must be a real piece of work..

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Tue May 17, 2011 3:26 pm

big orange wrote:Old goalie you have been around long enough to know that most tournments in the spring and summer have that rule,so do you bash the chitown shuffel,cougar classic,or the subway,Bernie runs it the same way as they run there tournments so why bash him?The only reason I can see you bashing Bernie is that one of your sons got cut from the Machine.

I can't tell if you are being serious or facetious? If it is facetious I apologize for misunderstanding the tone. If you are serious then please show me where this rule is in these other tourneys? Here is the link the the (formerly known as subway) North American Classic :

http://www.northamericanhockeyclassic.com/rules.asp

I see nothing even remotely like this rule at this tourney.

Here is rules for Chi-Town Shuffle:

http://chitownshuffle.com/Documents/201 ... ndRegs.pdf

My son has played in both and also the Meltdown, Cougar Classic, and many others and I've never, ever ever seen something like this rule before nor have I ever seen it inforced in any tourney we've been part of.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Tue May 17, 2011 3:33 pm

Orangey is just trying to make sure he has the most Bernie points. [kinda like brownie points but they are orange].

hunting247 · Post by **hunting247** » Tue May 17, 2011 3:49 pm

Simple fix...if you don't like the rules don't go to Bernies tournaments there are plenty of other people willing to follow the rules. Or you can just go out and start your own tournament and you can make any rules you want. You don't run the tournament so what right do you have to complain about the rules (as if you think you could change them).

HockeyDad41 · Post by **HockeyDad41** » Tue May 17, 2011 4:39 pm

old goalie85 wrote:Orangey is just trying to make sure he has the most Bernie points. [kinda like brownie points but they are orange].

hee hee bernie points......

Warriors · Post by **Warriors** » Tue May 17, 2011 8:02 pm

6. * Down player rule: If at any time a player goes down (injury) and play must be stopped, that player must sit out for the next 10 minutes of play. They may return to play after serving their 10 minutes recovery time. Players will remain on their player’s bench. Score keepers will track the time player may return to play. No exceptions.

I personally love this rule. If the kid is truly hurt then he wont be returning to play in the near future. Nothing drives me nuts more than a kid squirming on the ice because he is hurt so bad then seeing him out for the next shift. We coached against a team that had their kids sprawl on the ice playing like they had been shot just to slow the game down and take away our momentum AND because the game get shortened because we were over our time alotment. IMO opinion this rule doesnt hurt anyone, if the kid is hurt he wont be out for 10 minutes, if the kids decides to lay on the ice because he wants attention then he is learning a good lesson in sportsmanship by not returning to the ice until after 10 minutes of thinking about his actions. Just my 2 cents.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Tue May 17, 2011 8:07 pm

Not to throw a wrench in the I hate Bernie slant of the thread, but I think the rule is implemented in tournaments as a safety precaution for the kids. A crazy coach can't send a kid right back out there while he's hurt, or before he's had a chance to figure out if he's injured or OK.

dogeatdog1 · Post by **dogeatdog1** » Tue May 17, 2011 9:14 pm

InigoMontoya wrote:Not to throw a wrench in the I hate Bernie slant of the thread, but I think the rule is implemented in tournaments as a safety precaution for the kids. A crazy coach can't send a kid right back out there while he's hurt, or before he's had a chance to figure out if he's injured or OK.

Wouldn't that crazy coach send out a kid to hurt another little kid and both his goon and the good player that got hurt sit the next 10 minutes.. sounds like a bad rule to me.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Tue May 17, 2011 9:30 pm

InigoMontoya wrote:Not to throw a wrench in the I hate Bernie slant of the thread, but I think the rule is implemented in tournaments as a safety precaution for the kids. A crazy coach can't send a kid right back out there while he's hurt, or before he's had a chance to figure out if he's injured or OK.

The first thing a medical professional will tell you is not move. In a serious medical situation, I could see kids trying to pop up knowing that they'll have to sit, or worse yet, get barked at by a Bernie type personality. It's a recipe for disaster....

What more would you expect from him?

the_juiceman · Post by **the_juiceman** » Tue May 17, 2011 10:22 pm

observer wrote:Totally bush league behavior by your son's team's coach. This is not a League game, or playoff, but in a fun tourney giving some kids an opportunity to extend their season. I've never even heard of such a thing and certainly never seen it enforced. Again, in a tourney of this type, totally unecessary and mean spirited. The coaches behavior is teaching none of the proper lessons. If I was the ref I would have told that coach he's nuts and laughed in his face. The coach should be totally embarrased.

If you want to talk about "bush league" how about the kid who laid on the ice, waiting for a whistle! Where do they learn this? Coaches? parents? Where is the "teaching of proper lessons" for his actions? I'll tell where it is... in the 10 minutes he was sitting on the bench. I doubt he'll try that "bush league" stunt again. Lesson learned. Hopefully..for his teammates sake.

the_juiceman · Post by **the_juiceman** » Tue May 17, 2011 10:26 pm

old goalie85 wrote:HD41-I see the word mite and I think of mites. Still not a big difference between 1st year squirts and mites pertaining to pain threashold in my mind. Maybe not underhanded or shocking , but kind of a PLEASE BAN ME move anyway. Let the kids play. They will grow up on you fast. I like competitive, just not messing w/little kids that want to play hockey. No offense, only a little hate.

doesn't sound like the kid wanted to play hockey--sounds like he wanted to lay on the ice. The rest of his team got a little more ice time tho....

darkhorse · Post by **darkhorse** » Tue May 17, 2011 10:44 pm

MrBoDangles wrote:The first thing a medical professional will tell you is not move. In a serious medical situation, I could see kids trying to pop up knowing that they'll have to sit, or worse yet, get barked at by a Bernie type personality. It's a recipe for disaster....

Exactly the point. If it's actually a serious injury do you think the kid is thinking about getting back on the ice in the next 10 minutes (or should he?) No. All this rule does is prevent kids/coaches/teams from using an "injury" timeout. Really doesn't seem to be that big of deal IMO. How often did this rule actually come into play other than the case pointed out here?

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Wed May 18, 2011 6:06 am

darkhorse wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:The first thing a medical professional will tell you is not move. In a serious medical situation, I could see kids trying to pop up knowing that they'll have to sit, or worse yet, get barked at by a Bernie type personality. It's a recipe for disaster....
Exactly the point. If it's actually a serious injury do you think the kid is thinking about getting back on the ice in the next 10 minutes (or should he?) No. All this rule does is prevent kids/coaches/teams from using an "injury" timeout. Really doesn't seem to be that big of deal IMO. How often did this rule actually come into play other than the case pointed out here?

YES, with the pressure some of these programs and parents put on these little players. YES, I could see players try to get back to the bench without realizing the severity of their injuries.

They now know they don't have time to figure out how injured they are.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Wed May 18, 2011 6:13 am

Juice- good point. I've just never seen this rule come up before. Seems harsh for mites to me. Is the same mentality [rule] in place during the Choice games???

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Wed May 18, 2011 6:16 am

MrBoDangles wrote:
darkhorse wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:The first thing a medical professional will tell you is not move. In a serious medical situation, I could see kids trying to pop up knowing that they'll have to sit, or worse yet, get barked at by a Bernie type personality. It's a recipe for disaster....
Exactly the point. If it's actually a serious injury do you think the kid is thinking about getting back on the ice in the next 10 minutes (or should he?) No. All this rule does is prevent kids/coaches/teams from using an "injury" timeout. Really doesn't seem to be that big of deal IMO. How often did this rule actually come into play other than the case pointed out here?
edit

DMom · Post by **DMom** » Wed May 18, 2011 7:22 am

Bernie's ice, Bernie's rules, what's the problem with that? You agreed to play in the tournament, play by the rules. Also, even with ten minutes down the kid is getting more actually game time than in a winter tournament. All Bernie's tournaments have that rule and if you ask most of the kids they love the rule, because they aren't the ones milking every owie. Seriously, like you don't all know at least four kids that you see on down on the ice and a small part of your brain doesn't say, "Not again". This cures that kid and it stops wasting ice time....ice is expensive.

HockeyDad41 · Post by **HockeyDad41** » Wed May 18, 2011 8:02 am

old goalie85 wrote:Juice- good point. I've just never seen this rule come up before. Seems harsh for mites to me. Is the same mentality [rule] in place during the Choice games???

No this rule is not used in the Choice League games, and I don't remember hearing about it in the 2 tournaments either.

Why does this rule seem "harsh"? Too long? Would 5 minutes be better? Two? I like the rule, but if they shortened the "recovery" penalty er... time a bit, I don't think it would decrease the penalty's...I mean "player recovery period's" effectiveness.

HockeyDad41 · Post by **HockeyDad41** » Wed May 18, 2011 8:24 am

MrBoDangles wrote:
darkhorse wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:The first thing a medical professional will tell you is not move. In a serious medical situation, I could see kids trying to pop up knowing that they'll have to sit, or worse yet, get barked at by a Bernie type personality. It's a recipe for disaster....
Exactly the point. If it's actually a serious injury do you think the kid is thinking about getting back on the ice in the next 10 minutes (or should he?) No. All this rule does is prevent kids/coaches/teams from using an "injury" timeout. Really doesn't seem to be that big of deal IMO. How often did this rule actually come into play other than the case pointed out here?
YES, with the pressure some of these programs and parents put on these little players. YES, I could see players try to get back to the bench without realizing the severity of their injuries.

They now know they don't have time to figure out how injured they are.

Seriously when did youth hockey become the horror show you portray it to be?

Salivating bloodthirsty parent coaches screaming from the bench to their grievously injured players to get up and back out on the ice to try to win a plastic trophy.

Why do you hate Minnesota Made and Bernie so much? Your posts seem more personal in nature regarding this program. Probably why you've been asked a number of times (by me in fact a long time ago) if your kid got cut or something. Just curious. Might help me to understand your position.

dogeatdog1 · Post by **dogeatdog1** » Wed May 18, 2011 9:07 am

HockeyDad41 wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:
darkhorse wrote: Exactly the point. If it's actually a serious injury do you think the kid is thinking about getting back on the ice in the next 10 minutes (or should he?) No. All this rule does is prevent kids/coaches/teams from using an "injury" timeout. Really doesn't seem to be that big of deal IMO. How often did this rule actually come into play other than the case pointed out here?
YES, with the pressure some of these programs and parents put on these little players. YES, I could see players try to get back to the bench without realizing the severity of their injuries.

They now know they don't have time to figure out how injured they are.
Seriously when did youth hockey become the horror show you portray it to be? Salivating bloodthirsty parent coaches screaming from the bench to their grievously injured players to get up and back out on the ice to try to win a plastic trophy.

Why do you hate Minnesota Made and Bernie so much? Your posts seem more personal in nature regarding this program. Probably why you've been asked a number of times (by me in fact a long time ago) if your kid got cut or something. Just curious. Might help me to understand your position.

I love all the BM sniffers that always come back with the line "did your kid get cut or something?" I also love the ones that come back a few years later on the board with a different view of his programs. Your kid doesn't have to get cut from the Master developer to wake up one day and note that he didn't fulfill his promise of making your son a D1 player. And no my son didn't get cut.

He has never skated for him. The arrogance and out of the box thing that the organization does (like making rules like this that jeapordize a childs safety) is what brings the criticism. I think again that it is just a marketing ploy to keep people talking about the Made. Smart business? gets some people in the door and makes others shy away. To each his own.

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Wed May 18, 2011 9:29 am

DMom wrote:Bernie's ice, Bernie's rules, what's the problem with that? You agreed to play in the tournament, play by the rules. Also, even with ten minutes down the kid is getting more actually game time than in a winter tournament. All Bernie's tournaments have that rule and if you ask most of the kids they love the rule, because they aren't the ones milking every owie. Seriously, like you don't all know at least four kids that you see on down on the ice and a small part of your brain doesn't say, "Not again". This cures that kid and it stops wasting ice time....ice is expensive.

I do not personally know ANY kids like what you just described, let alone four........ Don;t worry we won;t play in any tourneys that have this rule but this is a BAD rule and also incredibly subjective. There are a TON of things that happen in hockey that cause you enough temporary pain that it makes it difficult to get up right away but you can be ready to go with in 3 to 4 minutes (aka by the time your next PLEASE BAN ME happens). People who think otherwise obviously have never played the game. You get hit with a a puck in just the right spot it hurts like heck initially and you can go down like a ton of bricks, but you give it a minute and skate it off and you are fine the next shift, same with certain collisions etc... How does a ref decide who has and who has not been down long enough to blwo the whistle and who decides if a kid is milking it or it's legit. It is a disaster of a rule, any sane person can see that.

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Wed May 18, 2011 9:31 am

HockeyDad41 wrote:
old goalie85 wrote:Juice- good point. I've just never seen this rule come up before. Seems harsh for mites to me. Is the same mentality [rule] in place during the Choice games???
No this rule is not used in the Choice League games, and I don't remember hearing about it in the 2 tournaments either.

Why does this rule seem "harsh"? Too long? Would 5 minutes be better? Two? I like the rule, but if they shortened the "recovery" penalty er... time a bit, I don't think it would decrease the penalty's...I mean "player recovery period's" effectiveness.

If they shortened it to 2 minutes atleast there would be some legitimacy to it as it would mirror a minor penalty. Right now it mirrors a 10 minute major. How is that possibly right in anyone's mind. 2 minutes mirrors a minor penalty, I could almost see that but 10 minutes is beyond ridiculous.

observer · Post by **observer** » Wed May 18, 2011 10:03 am

I'll add another angle. In one of my sons first PeeWee games, checking now allowed, they only had 5 minutes of their one hour of ice time for the third period. Usually in tournaments tournament organizers pad the ice schedule with an extra half hour of ice every 2-3 games so that if there's a serious injury, or an overtime, the tournament stays on schedule. The extra cushion 1/2 hour costs money and sometimes isn't used if all the early games stay on schedule. Bantams shift to 1.5 hour ice time, and a single resurface, in most of MN Hockey play, because they want to complete the game and bantam games used to feature lots of stupid penalties. This rule could have been dreamt up to attempt to keep the games on schedule and not having the tourney organizer have to put cushion ice in his schedule.

Have I seen kids lay on the ice for a minute or two and then recover for their next shift? Sure. Have I seen the same player do it 10 times in a season? Yes. But, what if it's a real injury? That's where I'm not in agreement with this particular unusual rule. Let the coach manage his own players and maybe sit the frequently kinda injured player for a shift or two. But, a rule to sit him for 10 minutes? No. And, to have an opposing coach be such a baby that he bring it to the attention of the refs? That is worth an after game argument as it's not good sportsmanship. It’s being a dick. I’m not buying the whole know the rules and use the rules to your advantage angle. Remember the “do unto others as you would have do unto you?” It’s called the Golden Rule. It's just not any way to make friends in the coaching community where respect is earned through good behavior and mutual respect towards one another and the opposing team players. It’s a game. They’re kids.

So, maybe tourney organizers use this silly idea in an attempt to keep the tourney on schedule and not have the extra expense of building in cushion time. There are better, and smarter, ways.

hunting247 · Post by **hunting247** » Wed May 18, 2011 10:12 am

I mean that is how Nazi Germany proliferated, right, people blindly following the "rules"..... that's just me though

[/quote]

any sane person can see that.

JSR

Obvioulsy we all can see that you are "sane" comparing youth hockey to Nazi's.......good job.

It is your right not to agree with this rule. but it is a rule regardless of you seeing as right or not.

When you build two ice rinks and organize your own tournaments you are welcome to make any rules you want

This thread started out as Whiney Coaches but it has since moved on to over the top whiney parents.

I said it once I'll say it again if you don't like the rules or Mn Made go some where else!!