Just thinking out loud.....

[hunting247]

And, to have an opposing coach be such a baby that he bring it to the attention of the refs? That is worth an after game argument as it's not good sportsmanship. It’s being a dick. I’m not buying the whole know the rules and use the rules to your advantage angle. Remember the “do unto others as you would have do unto you?” It’s called the Golden Rule. .[/quote]

Again everyone wants to play by their own rules. it is the rule of the tournament!! what about when a kid gets 4 penalties and is supposed to be ejected from the game but the refs or scorekeeper does not know this. Is it wrong for the opposing teams coach to bring this up to the officials????? or is that too being a "dick".

[HockeyDad41]

YES, with the pressure some of these programs and parents put on these little players. YES, I could see players try to get back to the bench without realizing the severity of their injuries.

They now know they don't have time to figure out how injured they are.

Seriously when did youth hockey become the horror show you portray it to be? Salivating bloodthirsty parent coaches screaming from the bench to their grievously injured players to get up and back out on the ice to try to win a plastic trophy.

Why do you hate Minnesota Made and Bernie so much? Your posts seem more personal in nature regarding this program. Probably why you've been asked a number of times (by me in fact a long time ago) if your kid got cut or something. Just curious. Might help me to understand your position.

I love all the BM sniffers that always come back with the line "did your kid get cut or something?" I also love the ones that come back a few years later on the board with a different view of his programs. Your kid doesn't have to get cut from the Master developer to wake up one day and note that he didn't fulfill his promise of making your son a D1 player. And no my son didn't get cut. He has never skated for him. The arrogance and out of the box thing that the organization does (like making rules like this that jeapordize a childs safety) is what brings the criticism. I think again that it is just a marketing ploy to keep people talking about the Made. Smart business? gets some people in the door and makes others shy away. To each his own.

Not that I don't appreciate your opinion, but how am I or anyone else supposed to take what you say seriously? You have no experience with his program other than heresay and yet you act like some kind of expert in all things Minnesota Made. Wild unsubstantiated claims of rules that jeopardize children's safety only make you look and sound sillier.

No one there has ever promised anything other than an opportunity for my kid to have a good time playing hockey and a chance to improve some individual skills.

I have been reading this board for several years now and I would love to have you point out the people that have come back on here with a different (negative) view of Made's programs. Can you name a couple?

[JSR]

I mean that is how Nazi Germany proliferated, right, people blindly following the "rules"..... that's just me though

any sane person can see that.

JSR

Obvioulsy we all can see that you are "sane" comparing youth hockey to Nazi's.......good job.

It is your right not to agree with this rule. but it is a rule regardless of you seeing as right or not.

When you build two ice rinks and organize your own tournaments you are welcome to make any rules you want

This thread started out as Whiney Coaches but it has since moved on to over the top whiney parents.

I said it once I'll say it again if you don't like the rules or Mn Made go some where else!!

[/quote]

I don't know much of anything about MN Made or this Bernie person other than that he is Jamie McBain's dad (one of my favorite Badgers). So it has nothing to do with dislike or like toward that rink or program. As you said I have a right to disagree with this rule and I do. Sometimes when a rule is as blatantly stupid as this one you have to call it out, I'm sorry you just do. I'm not whining about anything, I don't live anywhere near MN, don't have any regular interaction with it's teams or it's politics, I am offering an objective opinion on the rule itself and nothing else, that isn't whining. Also, I didn't compare youth hockey to Nazi's, I compared blindly following rules to Nazi Germany, big difference. Also, I am all for "if you build it you can make the rules" but just because you build it and make the rule does not make you immune from criticism when one of your rules is ridiculous. That said, I think you do protest too much here, did I hit some sort of personal nerve.....

[observer]

What about when a kid gets 4 penalties and is supposed to be ejected from the game but the refs or scorekeeper does not know this. Is it wrong for the opposing teams coach to bring this up to the officials?

Entirely different discussion. I'm sorry you're having trouble understanding.

[dogeatdog1]

Seriously when did youth hockey become the horror show you portray it to be? Salivating bloodthirsty parent coaches screaming from the bench to their grievously injured players to get up and back out on the ice to try to win a plastic trophy.

Why do you hate Minnesota Made and Bernie so much? Your posts seem more personal in nature regarding this program. Probably why you've been asked a number of times (by me in fact a long time ago) if your kid got cut or something. Just curious. Might help me to understand your position.

I love all the BM sniffers that always come back with the line "did your kid get cut or something?" I also love the ones that come back a few years later on the board with a different view of his programs. Your kid doesn't have to get cut from the Master developer to wake up one day and note that he didn't fulfill his promise of making your son a D1 player. And no my son didn't get cut. He has never skated for him. The arrogance and out of the box thing that the organization does (like making rules like this that jeapordize a childs safety) is what brings the criticism. I think again that it is just a marketing ploy to keep people talking about the Made. Smart business? gets some people in the door and makes others shy away. To each his own.

Not that I don't appreciate your opinion, but how am I or anyone else supposed to take what you say seriously? You have no experience with his program other than heresay and yet you act like some kind of expert in all things Minnesota Made. Wild unsubstantiated claims of rules that jeopardize children's safety only make you look and sound sillier.

No one there has ever promised anything other than an opportunity for my kid to have a good time playing hockey and a chance to improve some individual skills.

I have been reading this board for several years now and I would love to have you point out the people that have come back on here with a different (negative) view of Made's programs. Can you name a couple?

First I have been around coached against had my kids play against and had direct contact with the made in Many instances. Had some great experiences playing against the High end teams and had some unbelievable jaw dropping moments also. One of my sons was approached to play on the machine many years ago and was promised a scholarship which to me was unbelievable. (Turned me off from the start)I know that you have your glossy eye view of the program over there and I have talked to a few parents that have been believers for years. Of the ones that are still believers Their kids are very top end kids that are most likely destined to be D1players. Would they have been the same player if they didn't spend the $ at the Made Maybe. Maybe not. I also have talked to parents that are disgruntled about the way they were treated as they had kids on the lower end of the top teams. Sent away from the team in a year with bitter experiences. Could the Made have Made them into D1 Players? Probably not. Either way the only constant in this equation is that the business profits and produces some quality players and as many drift away to other programs. Say what you want about BM I think that his top end team at each level is good for the AAA scene in MN after that MY opinion is that he is watering down summer hockey like everyone else in the metro and Making Money off of selling a dream. If you are willing to spend your money on that then I am happy for you.

[hunting247]

What about when a kid gets 4 penalties and is supposed to be ejected from the game but the refs or scorekeeper does not know this. Is it wrong for the opposing teams coach to bring this up to the officials?

Entirely different discussion. I'm sorry you're having trouble understanding.

Obviously you are a little slow to understand, It is the exact senario in which you called a coach a dick. you have no right to call a coach a "dick" or that it was justfied to start an argument with another coach after a game. I was pointing out your complete and obvious flaw in thinking that a coach should not obey the rules of the tournament. I'm sorry you think that you are above the rules...

[hunting247]

I don't know much of anything about MN Made or this Bernie person other than that he is Jamie McBain's dad (one of my favorite Badgers). So it has nothing to do with dislike or like toward that rink or program. As you said I have a right to disagree with this rule and I do. Sometimes when a rule is as blatantly stupid as this one you have to call it out, I'm sorry you just do. I'm not whining about anything, I don't live anywhere near MN, don't have any regular interaction with it's teams or it's politics, I am offering an objective opinion on the rule itself and nothing else, that isn't whining. Also, I didn't compare youth hockey to Nazi's, I compared blindly following rules to Nazi Germany, big difference. Also, I am all for "if you build it you can make the rules" but just because you build it and make the rule does not make you immune from criticism when one of your rules is ridiculous. That said, I think you do protest too much here, did I hit some sort of personal nerve.....[/quote]


Really are you comparing following a rule at a tournament, to citizens being forced under a horrible dictator and mass murderer to follow the laws in "Nazi Germany" oh yea I see the similarities

let me ask you one question, just because you don't like or agree with a rule does that mean you do not need to follow it? I am just curious because it seems to me you want to fight against the "Nazis" and not follow the rules.

[MrBoDangles]

Exactly the point. If it's actually a serious injury do you think the kid is thinking about getting back on the ice in the next 10 minutes (or should he?) No. All this rule does is prevent kids/coaches/teams from using an "injury" timeout. Really doesn't seem to be that big of deal IMO. How often did this rule actually come into play other than the case pointed out here?

YES, with the pressure some of these programs and parents put on these little players. YES, I could see players try to get back to the bench without realizing the severity of their injuries.

They now know they don't have time to figure out how injured they are.

Seriously when did youth hockey become the horror show you portray it to be? Salivating bloodthirsty parent coaches screaming from the bench to their grievously injured players to get up and back out on the ice to try to win a plastic trophy.

Why do you hate Minnesota Made and Bernie so much? Your posts seem more personal in nature regarding this program. Probably why you've been asked a number of times (by me in fact a long time ago) if your kid got cut or something. Just curious. Might help me to understand your position.

I'm saying that the rule is a dumb idea. If my kid is hurt I don't want him to try to gimp back to the bench and further his injury. You folks are sounding like shallow, kool aid drinking drones. Do you have Bernie tramp stamps ?

Anyone could take a bulk of the already best kids, give them a ton of ice time, and claim resposibility..

Like I've said before........ The Made is a great tool for MN Hockey players. I actually wish I lived closer than the two hours I currently do. I probably would of had my kids in the choice league considering our current winter situation.

As for Bernie- The Machine kids are his PAYING labor force. If they don't do well he cracks the whip on the workers and the foremans(coaches)....... They must do well for him to do $. That's why there is always so much turmoil with the team (tension and bad press). Coaches fighting, players being made examples of, people leaving, keeping kids from other opportunities, etc. Hockey is a game. Games are meant to be fun.... When kids are playing the game for mom and dad to have smiles on their faces then something is wrong. Bernie also coaches many of the teams so he will be able to control with his hardline tactics. This might be a good approach for kids that are older, but nothing good will come of it with little kids.

The hamster wheel is not the key.

[JSR]

I don't know much of anything about MN Made or this Bernie person other than that he is Jamie McBain's dad (one of my favorite Badgers). So it has nothing to do with dislike or like toward that rink or program. As you said I have a right to disagree with this rule and I do. Sometimes when a rule is as blatantly stupid as this one you have to call it out, I'm sorry you just do. I'm not whining about anything, I don't live anywhere near MN, don't have any regular interaction with it's teams or it's politics, I am offering an objective opinion on the rule itself and nothing else, that isn't whining. Also, I didn't compare youth hockey to Nazi's, I compared blindly following rules to Nazi Germany, big difference. Also, I am all for "if you build it you can make the rules" but just because you build it and make the rule does not make you immune from criticism when one of your rules is ridiculous. That said, I think you do protest too much here, did I hit some sort of personal nerve.....

Really are you comparing following a rule at a tournament, to citizens being forced under a horrible dictator and mass murderer to follow the laws in "Nazi Germany" oh yea I see the similarities

let me ask you one question, just because you don't like or agree with a rule does that mean you do not need to follow it? I am just curious because it seems to me you want to fight against the "Nazis" and not follow the rules.

[/quote]

It is actually kind of sad that you do not see the similarities....

To answer your one question, it depends on the situation. Sometimes not following the rules is the right thing to do.

[hunting247]

I'm saying that the rule is a dumb idea. If my kid is hurt I don't want him to try to gimp back to the bench and further his injury. You folks are sounding like shallow, kool aid drinking drones. Do you have Bernie tramp stamps ?

Anyone could take a bulk of the already best kids, give them a ton of ice time, and claim resposibility..

Like I've said before........ The Made is a great tool for MN Hockey players. I actually wish I lived closer than the two hours I currently do. I probably would of had my kids in the choice league considering our current winter situation.

As for Bernie- The Machine kids are his PAYING labor force. If they don't do well he cracks the whip on the workers and the foremans(coaches)....... They must do well for him to do $. That's why there is always so much turmoil with the team (tension and bad press). Coaches fighting, players being made examples of, people leaving, keeping kids from other opportunities, etc. Hockey is a game. Games are meant to be fun.... When kids are playing the game for mom and dad to have smiles on their faces then something is wrong. Bernie also coaches many of the teams so he will be able to control with his hardline tactics. This might be a good approach for kids that are older, but nothing good will come of it with little kids.

The hamster wheel is not the key. [/quote]

Wow you sure know alot about MN Made for living two hours away and never been a part of it.

why don't you take the "already best kids" and claim responsibility if its so easy. Most kids work their way up to playing on the machine or upper teams. I know alot who started on the lower teams (Grinders, Force, Snipers, Duece, Torspo)., but you already knew that because you know all about Mn Made.

[MrBoDangles]

I'm saying that the rule is a dumb idea. If my kid is hurt I don't want him to try to gimp back to the bench and further his injury. You folks are sounding like shallow, kool aid drinking drones. Do you have Bernie tramp stamps ?

Anyone could take a bulk of the already best kids, give them a ton of ice time, and claim resposibility..

Like I've said before........ The Made is a great tool for MN Hockey players. I actually wish I lived closer than the two hours I currently do. I probably would of had my kids in the choice league considering our current winter situation.

As for Bernie- The Machine kids are his PAYING labor force. If they don't do well he cracks the whip on the workers and the foremans(coaches)....... They must do well for him to do $. That's why there is always so much turmoil with the team (tension and bad press). Coaches fighting, players being made examples of, people leaving, keeping kids from other opportunities, etc. Hockey is a game. Games are meant to be fun.... When kids are playing the game for mom and dad to have smiles on their faces then something is wrong. Bernie also coaches many of the teams so he will be able to control with his hardline tactics. This might be a good approach for kids that are older, but nothing good will come of it with little kids.

The hamster wheel is not the key.

Wow you sure know alot about MN Made for living two hours away and never been a part of it.

why don't you take the "already best kids" and claim responsibility if its so easy. Most kids work their way up to playing on the machine or upper teams. I know alot who started on the lower teams (Grinders, Force, Snipers, Duece, Torspo)., but you already knew that because you know all about Mn Made.[/quote]
That's all you got? I've SEEN and heard plenty.

If all the best players went to the Icemen or even the Pink Lady Slippers then people would think they had all the magic potions.

[HockeyDad41]

YES, with the pressure some of these programs and parents put on these little players. YES, I could see players try to get back to the bench without realizing the severity of their injuries.

They now know they don't have time to figure out how injured they are.

Seriously when did youth hockey become the horror show you portray it to be? Salivating bloodthirsty parent coaches screaming from the bench to their grievously injured players to get up and back out on the ice to try to win a plastic trophy.

Why do you hate Minnesota Made and Bernie so much? Your posts seem more personal in nature regarding this program. Probably why you've been asked a number of times (by me in fact a long time ago) if your kid got cut or something. Just curious. Might help me to understand your position.

I'm saying that the rule is a dumb idea. If my kid is hurt I don't want him to try to gimp back to the bench and further his injury. You folks are sounding like shallow, kool aid drinking drones. Do you have Bernie tramp stamps ?

Anyone could take a bulk of the already best kids, give them a ton of ice time, and claim resposibility..

Like I've said before........ The Made is a great tool for MN Hockey players. I actually wish I lived closer than the two hours I currently do. I probably would of had my kids in the choice league considering our current winter situation.

As for Bernie- The Machine kids are his PAYING labor force. If they don't do well he cracks the whip on the workers and the foremans(coaches)....... They must do well for him to do $. That's why there is always so much turmoil with the team (tension and bad press). Coaches fighting, players being made examples of, people leaving, keeping kids from other opportunities, etc. Hockey is a game. Games are meant to be fun.... When kids are playing the game for mom and dad to have smiles on their faces then something is wrong. Bernie also coaches many of the teams so he will be able to control with his hardline tactics. This might be a good approach for kids that are older, but nothing good will come of it with little kids.

The hamster wheel is not the key.

Thanks. 2 hours away huh? I guess I thought from your comments you had some actual experience with what you were trying to bash.

I love that image of Bernie cracking the whip. Priceless. Maybe with a whip in one hand and a fist full of cash in the other and sycophantic parents wearing Machine garb kneeling before him.

[old goalie85]

HD-You can bet it would NOT be pricless.$$$$

[MrBoDangles]

Seriously when did youth hockey become the horror show you portray it to be? Salivating bloodthirsty parent coaches screaming from the bench to their grievously injured players to get up and back out on the ice to try to win a plastic trophy.

Why do you hate Minnesota Made and Bernie so much? Your posts seem more personal in nature regarding this program. Probably why you've been asked a number of times (by me in fact a long time ago) if your kid got cut or something. Just curious. Might help me to understand your position.

I'm saying that the rule is a dumb idea. If my kid is hurt I don't want him to try to gimp back to the bench and further his injury. You folks are sounding like shallow, kool aid drinking drones. Do you have Bernie tramp stamps ?

Anyone could take a bulk of the already best kids, give them a ton of ice time, and claim resposibility..

Like I've said before........ The Made is a great tool for MN Hockey players. I actually wish I lived closer than the two hours I currently do. I probably would of had my kids in the choice league considering our current winter situation.

As for Bernie- The Machine kids are his PAYING labor force. If they don't do well he cracks the whip on the workers and the foremans(coaches)....... They must do well for him to do $. That's why there is always so much turmoil with the team (tension and bad press). Coaches fighting, players being made examples of, people leaving, keeping kids from other opportunities, etc. Hockey is a game. Games are meant to be fun.... When kids are playing the game for mom and dad to have smiles on their faces then something is wrong. Bernie also coaches many of the teams so he will be able to control with his hardline tactics. This might be a good approach for kids that are older, but nothing good will come of it with little kids.

The hamster wheel is not the key.

Thanks. 2 hours away huh? I guess I thought from your comments you had some actual experience with what you were trying to bash.

I love that image of Bernie cracking the whip. Priceless. Maybe with a whip in one hand and a fist full of cash in the other and sycophantic parents wearing Machine garb kneeling before him.

Is family and friends experience enough? Coaches of the team we're playing against screaming at a kid until he's in tears..? Is this enough? Countless other FACTS that have happened?

With lipgloss?

[scrapiron]

Here is a thought, the NHL now has the quiet room that players have to go to be observed for 15 minutes.

If a player is really hurt he is not thinking about gettting up anyway.
If he is really hurt then by the time the EMT looks at him on the bench the 10 min would have been close to being over.

If he is a kid that gets slashed in the arm, rather than laying on the ice he will make his way to the bench.

If he doesnt get up he won't lay on the ice next time.
Last I know that the ref are instructed to give the player a chance to get up.

The thought is that if the EMT goes out on the ice you can almost count on it taking two or three time as long to get them of the ice than it a coach when out on the ice. The EMTs tend to keep them out there.

If you have an 8:30 pm start time and you have two or three players down throught the day, you may be be starting that game at 9:30 or 10:00 pm. I have seen a player on the ice for 10 or 15 min and then skate the next shift.

As far as Bernie goes he is an independent spirit. I have spoke with him a few times and I would have to say that he is going to do what he thinks is right. I don't think he cares what you or I think or what our feelings are. He does what he wants because he can and people either love him or hate him. not much middle ground.
One thing I know for sure is that he has been in youth Hockey longer than most on this board have and will be here long after our kids are out of hockey

I have a player in the Choice league
I think it is a good rule. Just a few thoughts

[hunting247]

I don't know much of anything about MN Made or this Bernie person other than that he is Jamie McBain's dad (one of my favorite Badgers). So it has nothing to do with dislike or like toward that rink or program. As you said I have a right to disagree with this rule and I do. Sometimes when a rule is as blatantly stupid as this one you have to call it out, I'm sorry you just do. I'm not whining about anything, I don't live anywhere near MN, don't have any regular interaction with it's teams or it's politics, I am offering an objective opinion on the rule itself and nothing else, that isn't whining. Also, I didn't compare youth hockey to Nazi's, I compared blindly following rules to Nazi Germany, big difference. Also, I am all for "if you build it you can make the rules" but just because you build it and make the rule does not make you immune from criticism when one of your rules is ridiculous. That said, I think you do protest too much here, did I hit some sort of personal nerve.....

Really are you comparing following a rule at a tournament, to citizens being forced under a horrible dictator and mass murderer to follow the laws in "Nazi Germany" oh yea I see the similarities

let me ask you one question, just because you don't like or agree with a rule does that mean you do not need to follow it? I am just curious because it seems to me you want to fight against the "Nazis" and not follow the rules.

It is actually kind of sad that you do not see the similarities....

To answer your one question, it depends on the situation. Sometimes not following the rules is the right thing to do.[/quote]

what is sad is that you actually believe the garbage being spewed from your mouth. keep making comparisons like that I am sure it amuses everyone reading your post....keep it coming and you go and make your own rules because it is obvious you don't want to follow anyone elses

[HockeyDad41]

I love all the BM sniffers that always come back with the line "did your kid get cut or something?" I also love the ones that come back a few years later on the board with a different view of his programs. Your kid doesn't have to get cut from the Master developer to wake up one day and note that he didn't fulfill his promise of making your son a D1 player. And no my son didn't get cut. He has never skated for him. The arrogance and out of the box thing that the organization does (like making rules like this that jeapordize a childs safety) is what brings the criticism. I think again that it is just a marketing ploy to keep people talking about the Made. Smart business? gets some people in the door and makes others shy away. To each his own.

Not that I don't appreciate your opinion, but how am I or anyone else supposed to take what you say seriously? You have no experience with his program other than heresay and yet you act like some kind of expert in all things Minnesota Made. Wild unsubstantiated claims of rules that jeopardize children's safety only make you look and sound sillier.

No one there has ever promised anything other than an opportunity for my kid to have a good time playing hockey and a chance to improve some individual skills.

I have been reading this board for several years now and I would love to have you point out the people that have come back on here with a different (negative) view of Made's programs. Can you name a couple?

First I have been around coached against had my kids play against and had direct contact with the made in Many instances. Had some great experiences playing against the High end teams and had some unbelievable jaw dropping moments also. One of my sons was approached to play on the machine many years ago and was promised a scholarship which to me was unbelievable. (Turned me off from the start)I know that you have your glossy eye view of the program over there and I have talked to a few parents that have been believers for years. Of the ones that are still believers Their kids are very top end kids that are most likely destined to be D1players. Would they have been the same player if they didn't spend the $ at the Made Maybe. Maybe not. I also have talked to parents that are disgruntled about the way they were treated as they had kids on the lower end of the top teams. Sent away from the team in a year with bitter experiences. Could the Made have Made them into D1 Players? Probably not. Either way the only constant in this equation is that the business profits and produces some quality players and as many drift away to other programs. Say what you want about BM I think that his top end team at each level is good for the AAA scene in MN after that MY opinion is that he is watering down summer hockey like everyone else in the metro and Making Money off of selling a dream. If you are willing to spend your money on that then I am happy for you.

Sorry, this doesn't legitimize your rants against all things Bernie in my opinion. Maybe your team got schooled a few times by the Machine and this is just sour grapes.

[JSR]

It is actually kind of sad that you do not see the similarities....

To answer your one question, it depends on the situation. Sometimes not following the rules is the right thing to do.

what is sad is that you actually believe the garbage being spewed from your mouth. keep making comparisons like that I am sure it amuses everyone reading your post....keep it coming and you go and make your own rules because it is obvious you don't want to follow anyone elses

[/quote]

Way to try and put words in my mouth..... I can see there is no point in trying to have an intelligent conversation with you, I am done

[Pucksahater]

JSR why don`t you use your Nazi comparison again, that`s a form of intelligent conversation you are seeking. That`s just me though, how can a guy from Wiasconsin be so arrogant?

[the_juiceman]

Juice- good point. I've just never seen this rule come up before. Seems harsh for mites to me. Is the same mentality [rule] in place during the Choice games???

No this rule is not used in the Choice League games, and I don't remember hearing about it in the 2 tournaments either.

Why does this rule seem "harsh"? Too long? Would 5 minutes be better? Two? I like the rule, but if they shortened the "recovery" penalty er... time a bit, I don't think it would decrease the penalty's...I mean "player recovery period's" effectiveness.

If they shortened it to 2 minutes atleast there would be some legitimacy to it as it would mirror a minor penalty. Right now it mirrors a 10 minute major. How is that possibly right in anyone's mind. 2 minutes mirrors a minor penalty, I could almost see that but 10 minutes is beyond ridiculous.

Why is the amount of time for the infraction the only thing being argued-- shouldn't the real discussion be about the player(s) that are committing the infraction? How can this behavior be eliminated? What makes them think it is okay? Why are they doing it? Fix the REAL problem, and the rule can be eliminated.