The state now gets to see how MSHSL dropped the ball...

[almostashappy]

The rules have NOT changed! Only the amount of time served in the penalty box. A Major penalty is an option for the ref on any minor. The refs were not calling the rules as written. Now, with a 5 minute mandate, the rules have magically changed for what is and what used to be a penalty?

And we have opened the door to a greater reward for diving! A new skill has been developed.

BB82, I think the emphasis has forced those officials that tried to sluff off a check from behind as a cross check, to being called correctly but outside of that I'm confused as to what "magically" changed about penalty calling?

I think that the magic part is where the MSHSL took away the ref's discretion. Before the rule changes, the refs could bump any minor penalty up to a 5-min major and tack on a game DQ, right? I saw that in the Eagan - Burnsville game two days before the rule changes went into effect...both a boarding call that was bumped up to a 5-min major, and a high-stick to the head that resulted in both a 5-min major and a game DQ.

Now there's no option...automatic majors, regardless of whether the contact was intentional or inadvertent. The only decision for the refs to make is whether the DQ should be added.

I was thinking that every check from behind and most boarding calls were going to result in a game DQ and subsequent 1-game suspension. But that doesn't seem to be the case...on Saturday, I saw 2 CFB, 3 boarding calls and a half-dozen head contacts, but nobody got thrown out of the game.

[inthestands]

I was thinking that every check from behind and most boarding calls were going to result in a game DQ and subsequent 1-game suspension.

That would be an incorrect assumption.

Game DQ for CFB are issued when the player being checked goes head first into the boards or goal post.

Boarding, I'm not sure but think that would be a tough one unless the player wasn't able to continue since the hit is normally legal but send the player crashing into the boards.

Head contact is one big gray area. Unless there is malicious intent or an injury attempt, the game DQ is unlikely.

Remember the rules haven't changed, only the minor penalty option dissappeared for the officials. Not saying that won't change the interpretation for them, but it shouldn't.

[auld_skool]

I think the MSHSL is in a tough spot here. With all the coverage of the recent injuries there is an outcry about making the game safer. Heck, I'm sure there's folks out there that would love to see hockey eliminated.

On the other side, if they change the game too much from the rest of the world they'll lose more of the better players to other venues.

I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions.

[rudy]

A lot of eyes have gone over this board and still no reason given for the following, which i posted her over the weekend:

why should boys hockey not be subjected to the same checking restrictions as girls hockey?

Given that girls are allowed to "rub out" for puck control and have "incidental contact," i dont know why changing boys to those rules isnt being pursued. it seems almost certain that it would make the game safer for boys -- and this is our paramount interest, we are being told -- and "girls" rules would leave the contact strictly to puck possession situations.

why not that fix in the name of safety?

[rudy]

Star Tribune reporter ML Smith wants to hear from people tonight who don't like the revisions in the penalties.

Contact her at marylynn.smith@startribune.com.

[icehornet]

The rules have NOT changed! Only the amount of time served in the penalty box. A Major penalty is an option for the ref on any minor. The refs were not calling the rules as written. Now, with a 5 minute mandate, the rules have magically changed for what is and what used to be a penalty?

And we have opened the door to a greater reward for diving! A new skill has been developed.

If people are actually more concerned (and seemingly hellbent) about "diving" than the legitimate safety of the kids on the ice there is something very wrong with that line of thinking.

Where has anyone said they're not concerned about the safety of the players??? Can't you be concerned about both? Or has the hysteria reached such a level that if you question whether or not these rules are well though out that you somehow don't care about player safety?

It's YOUR thinking that only re-enforces my opinion that new rules (or laws) should NEVER be created when the emotions of a tragedy are still raw.

No, I don't think you should be nearly as concerned about kids diving compared to kids suffering lifelong injuries. Should kids who "dive" or "embellish" be called for a penalty? Yes, but should that be a reason not to put stiffer consequences in place for more dangerous penalties? I fully acknowledge there will be calls that likely shouldn't be made but if this change successfully reduces severe injuries to kids it will be worth the concerns some people are voicing. The game needs to continue to evolve and I see this as part of that process. College and the NHL have already started in this direction.

[BadgerBob82]

icehornet: The "reward" for drawing a penalty is now so great, I don't think anyone can dispute kids are leading with their head, then snapping their head back to embellish head contact. They are belly flopping at the first feel of a hand/stick on their back. And standing 3 feet from the boards and lunging at the boards as a player attempts to pin them. The reward of an unlimited 5 minute power play is that tempting.

The rule change was implemented to "change behavior". Well it changed the behavior toward diving/faking. The punishment for that must equal the reward, hence a 5 minute major for diving/embellishment/faking whatever you want to call it.

While I have a problem with the discretion for a 2, 5, Game has been taken away from the referees. They proved incapable of making the right calls. So this is what we have now.

[muckandgrind]

If people are actually more concerned (and seemingly hellbent) about "diving" than the legitimate safety of the kids on the ice there is something very wrong with that line of thinking.

Where has anyone said they're not concerned about the safety of the players??? Can't you be concerned about both? Or has the hysteria reached such a level that if you question whether or not these rules are well though out that you somehow don't care about player safety?

It's YOUR thinking that only re-enforces my opinion that new rules (or laws) should NEVER be created when the emotions of a tragedy are still raw.

No, I don't think you should be nearly as concerned about kids diving compared to kids suffering lifelong injuries. Should kids who "dive" or "embellish" be called for a penalty? Yes, but should that be a reason not to put stiffer consequences in place for more dangerous penalties? I fully acknowledge there will be calls that likely shouldn't be made but if this change successfully reduces severe injuries to kids it will be worth the concerns some people are voicing. The game needs to continue to evolve and I see this as part of that process. College and the NHL have already started in this direction.

Before Jablonski, how many hockey players in Minnesota over the past 10 years have suffered life long injuries?

Hockey is a contact sport, and with that, there is an inherent risk of injury. No matter how much you try to "change behavior", there will still be the occasional "freakish" injury (as with Jablonski).

Making players more aware of the risk and enforcing the rules as written can go a long way towards preventing future situations like this. There was no urgent need to go to the major penalty. The HS League panicked because the spotlight was on them, pure and simple. They felt like they HAD to make a change, when in reality, the only change they needed to make was to make it clear that the refs NEED to start enforcing the rule book.

Why does the game "need" to continue to evolve? Does football need to evolve? There are more injuries in football compared to hockey. Does cheerleading need to evolve? There are more serious spinal injuries to cheerleaders than hockey players. Does baseball need to evolve? How many players get drilled in the head with baseballs every year?

The game of hockey does NOT need to evolve. It's a great game the way it is. The only problem is that the refs weren't calling the game according to how the rules are written. Lengthening the penalty in minutes won't mean squat if the refs don't make the calls.

[MNHockeyFan]

BadgerBob82, forget about a 5 minute major for embellishment - it will never happen.

If a would be major is obviously faked, then it's not a major or even a penalty. And if it's obvious that it was faked, both you AND the referee would see that - and no call.

I do agree that there should be a 2 minute penalty for embellishment, just like in the college game. They also strictly enforce major penalties for CFB and hits to the head, but it's rare that you see any faking or embellishment. In D1 these are not a problem, even though they were several years ahead of the MSHSL in doing more to protect the players. The players (and coaches) have adopted to the harsher penalties, and believe me they still play very physical.

[spin-o-rama]

icehornet: The "reward" for drawing a penalty is now so great, I don't think anyone can dispute kids are leading with their head, then snapping their head back to embellish head contact. They are belly flopping at the first feel of a hand/stick on their back. And standing 3 feet from the boards and lunging at the boards as a player attempts to pin them. The reward of an unlimited 5 minute power play is that tempting.

The rule change was implemented to "change behavior". Well it changed the behavior toward diving/faking. The punishment for that must equal the reward, hence a 5 minute major for diving/embellishment/faking whatever you want to call it.

While I have a problem with the discretion for a 2, 5, Game has been taken away from the referees. They proved incapable of making the right calls. So this is what we have now.

Perhaps lesson the man advantage time and increase the misconduct time. Make the penalty more on the individual than the team. The actions of the last few weeks are saying that MH and MSHSL are being serious. This summer is the time for them to fine tune it.
Diving should be called more often.

The new Minnesota Hockey flag

[icehornet]

icehornet: The "reward" for drawing a penalty is now so great, I don't think anyone can dispute kids are leading with their head, then snapping their head back to embellish head contact. They are belly flopping at the first feel of a hand/stick on their back. And standing 3 feet from the boards and lunging at the boards as a player attempts to pin them. The reward of an unlimited 5 minute power play is that tempting.

The rule change was implemented to "change behavior". Well it changed the behavior toward diving/faking. The punishment for that must equal the reward, hence a 5 minute major for diving/embellishment/faking whatever you want to call it.

While I have a problem with the discretion for a 2, 5, Game has been taken away from the referees. They proved incapable of making the right calls. So this is what we have now.

We're in agreement here, calling diving/embellishment needs to be done consistently. While you may be right that kids are doing this significantly more I don't think one week is enough time to say it's "indisputable" that kids are regularly leading with their heads.

Before Jablonski, how many hockey players in Minnesota over the past 10 years have suffered life long injuries?

Hockey is a contact sport, and with that, there is an inherent risk of injury. No matter how much you try to "change behavior", there will still be the occasional "freakish" injury (as with Jablonski).

Making players more aware of the risk and enforcing the rules as written can go a long way towards preventing future situations like this. There was no urgent need to go to the major penalty. The HS League panicked because the spotlight was on them, pure and simple. They felt like they HAD to make a change, when in reality, the only change they needed to make was to make it clear that the refs NEED to start enforcing the rule book.

Muck, we're on different sides of this and I doubt either of us will change the others mind. To answer some of your questions though I think we have seen a significant number of injuries that have the potential to impact kids for much longer than any of us know or anticipate in the form of concussions. On the "severe spectrum" concussions are on one end and what happened to Jack is on the other. I fully agree what happened to Jack is a scary accident that no one can predict and everyone takes the risk of happening anytime they lace up the skates (or walk out the door for that matter.)

I also agree that we need to make players more aware of the risk and the rules need to be enforced. Unfortunately that message didn't seem to be getting through so with a change like this it brings those discussions to the forefront and everyone is more aware because of it. While everyone was talking about it after Jack's injury, if no rule changes had been made my opinion is that things would've went back to business as usual within a few weeks.

As for sports evolving, all sports need to evolve. The game changes as players get bigger, stronger, and faster. Equipment gets better. Technology, science, and the medical world are able to provide information we never knew existed. Football has continued to make significant changes to their rules/penalties. I don't know much about cheerleading but they probably should look at making changes if that many life altering injuries are occurring. Hockey has always evolved and will continue to do so. Players didn't even wear helmets at one point! But today kids have so much equipment on they feel invincible out there and at times act like human torpedos. Hockey can continue to be the great game that it is, but changes are inevitable. I'm not saying all change is good either, but when it comes to preventable injuries we should be doing as much as we possibly can.

[Bronc]

Perhaps lesson the man advantage time and increase the misconduct time. Make the penalty more on the individual than the team. The actions of the last few weeks are saying that MH and MSHSL are being serious. This summer is the time for them to fine tune it.
Diving should be called more often.

The new Minnesota Hockey flag
[/quote]

A lot of people write in college they do this in pro they do that for hockey for enforcement of rules. Just like in football their are different rules for HS vs College vs Pro (ie; 1 foot in bounds vs 2, hits to the QB cannot be after 2 steps in the Pro's because they have the physical and mental ability to change direction before contact, etc).

The rationale is they are more skilled and play at a higher level. Therefore it would not make sense to hold a younger, less skilled and experienced player to the same standards.

That tiered effect makes sense. Remember these are kids out there playing and have a wide range of skills and reaction time. Major injuries although terrible are extremely rare (and much less than in other contact sports, football, etc).

Accidents happen regardless of the rules, luckily hockey has a great track record of not having these terrible things happen often (hence why it has made the news so much now).

Make decision from fact not emotion and don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

[isee]

I taped the White Bear Game against Grand Rapids, 1 of the 2 kneeing majors against WBL was a good call, the other was more a a collision. 1 of the 2 checking from behind penalties was legit, the other was a check into the boards where the kid ducked and turned, although it looked like more of a head contact, the kid still ducked, and it appeared unavoidable. Should have been a no call.

WBL has had there share of 5 minute majors and 10 misconducts. A BLATENT check from behind, or kneeing is most defiantly cause for concern. Some instances are unavoidable, like if a guy turns on you etc.. those I understand.

Here is where I see the problem at least with the few games I have seen this year, with the CFB & kneeing. Including retaliation or frustration 10 minute misconducts.

NO REPERCUSSION FROM THE BENCH!!!! A five minute Major isn't going to hurt the kid if he is allowed to get out of the box right back out on the ice. But it will hurt the team in almost all circumstances.

I have witnessed this several times this year, with majors and unsportsmanlike conducts. Unless of course you are not one of the "Favorites" than you might sit.

These players who are to selfish to think about the team should be reprimanded by there coaches, putting some of the responsibility of discipline in there lap.

I know when I was playing if we got a 2 & 10 or a 5 minute major, if the coach thought it was legit, we wouldn't see the ice the rest of the game if not the next. And he didn't care who you were.

[HShockeywatcher]

Before Jablonski, how many hockey players in Minnesota over the past 10 years have suffered life long injuries?

Hockey is a contact sport, and with that, there is an inherent risk of injury. No matter how much you try to "change behavior", there will still be the occasional "freakish" injury (as with Jablonski).

Making players more aware of the risk and enforcing the rules as written can go a long way towards preventing future situations like this. There was no urgent need to go to the major penalty. The HS League panicked because the spotlight was on them, pure and simple. They felt like they HAD to make a change, when in reality, the only change they needed to make was to make it clear that the refs NEED to start enforcing the rule book.

Why does the game "need" to continue to evolve? Does football need to evolve? There are more injuries in football compared to hockey. Does cheerleading need to evolve? There are more serious spinal injuries to cheerleaders than hockey players. Does baseball need to evolve? How many players get drilled in the head with baseballs every year?

The game of hockey does NOT need to evolve. It's a great game the way it is. The only problem is that the refs weren't calling the game according to how the rules are written. Lengthening the penalty in minutes won't mean squat if the refs don't make the calls.

As a non-hockey player, I have known multiple hockey players who have had to quit playing hockey because of the number of concussions they have had. "Life long injury" doesn't just refer to a player getting paralyzed, it can refer to many of the brain injuries players end up with, many of them from playing only high school hockey.

Based on what I have read from others on this board and what I've seen from watching teams like SSM and NTDP play, the game of hockey has evolved and we in MN aren't evolving with it. Watch a SSM game; they are more physical than any HS team you will see play, but they also play finesse hockey. That is where hockey around the world seems to be, we need to catch up.

I don't know if this is too far of a jump or not, but it may have something to do with the decline in the number of players we have that are rated really well nationally.

[Bronc]

Before Jablonski, how many hockey players in Minnesota over the past 10 years have suffered life long injuries?

Hockey is a contact sport, and with that, there is an inherent risk of injury. No matter how much you try to "change behavior", there will still be the occasional "freakish" injury (as with Jablonski).

Making players more aware of the risk and enforcing the rules as written can go a long way towards preventing future situations like this. There was no urgent need to go to the major penalty. The HS League panicked because the spotlight was on them, pure and simple. They felt like they HAD to make a change, when in reality, the only change they needed to make was to make it clear that the refs NEED to start enforcing the rule book.

Why does the game "need" to continue to evolve? Does football need to evolve? There are more injuries in football compared to hockey. Does cheerleading need to evolve? There are more serious spinal injuries to cheerleaders than hockey players. Does baseball need to evolve? How many players get drilled in the head with baseballs every year?

The game of hockey does NOT need to evolve. It's a great game the way it is. The only problem is that the refs weren't calling the game according to how the rules are written. Lengthening the penalty in minutes won't mean squat if the refs don't make the calls.

As a non-hockey player, I have known multiple hockey players who have had to quit playing hockey because of the number of concussions they have had. "Life long injury" doesn't just refer to a player getting paralyzed, it can refer to many of the brain injuries players end up with, many of them from playing only high school hockey.

Based on what I have read from others on this board and what I've seen from watching teams like SSM and NTDP play, the game of hockey has evolved and we in MN aren't evolving with it. Watch a SSM game; they are more physical than any HS team you will see play, but they also play finesse hockey. That is where hockey around the world seems to be, we need to catch up.

I don't know if this is too far of a jump or not, but it may have something to do with the decline in the number of players we have that are rated really well nationally.

The answer is both, physical and finesse. I have seen these teams play and you are correct they are a solid program. I believe they would agree contact in the back is more oft than not a check from behind in the real hockey world (pinning against boards, players turning into hits, etc) even though nobody wants to publicly state it otherwise they are chastised as not caring about player safety.

Thugs need to be dealt with absolutely.

Skill is a important montra, but it has not replaced physical play just has become an equal partner.

To many of these changes are trying to be dictated by those that do not play nor have, but are arm chair quarterbacks. Hard to lead the squadron if you are not a pilot.

[inthestands]

While I don't agree with criticizing the coaches, players and officials as some think needs to happen we all need to understand that power and finesse works a lot better when you have elite players at all positions.

Most HS teams don't have that option.

I'm glad I don't have the responsibility of making those MSHSL decisions.

[Oldtimehockeyguy23]

Bottom line is the talent of high school hockey five years from now if the rules are kept will be HALF what it is now. Because why wouldn't you leave for juniors now? Yeah, the MSHSL just did itself a huge favor down the road...

I hope they figure out how bad they screwed up when they don't sell out the X five years from now and they realize HS hockey has become just like every other state.....

[inthestands]

Does anyone know how our HS age rules compare with that of European players of the same age?

Seems like we are, and have been seeing an influx of non US players into the NHL over the past number of years.

What are they doing different or better than US kids from a learning stand point?

All this talk of rules is fine, but it really comes down to education. What are the succesful kids being taught early on?

[Ranger101]

That tiered effect makes sense. Remember these are kids out there playing and have a wide range of skills and reaction time. Major injuries although terrible are extremely rare (and much less than in other contact sports, football, etc).

Accidents happen regardless of the rules, luckily hockey has a great track record of not having these terrible things happen often (hence why it has made the news so much now).

Make decision from fact not emotion and don't throw the baby out with the bath water.[/quote]


This is the best answer out there. Yes it's terrible what happened to Jack Jablonski (and Jenna) and I feel for him/her and his/her family, but this is not a normal occurance. It's an outlier. What I watched on Saturday in the GR-WBL game was some of the most boring hockey I have seen in a long time. Nothing but whistles and a referees scared to make the appropriate call because of their fear for backlash from fans/media. It's sad that the game will never be the same. I do agree some changes needed to be made but this drastic and in mid to late season...???

[muckandgrind]

Before Jablonski, how many hockey players in Minnesota over the past 10 years have suffered life long injuries?

Hockey is a contact sport, and with that, there is an inherent risk of injury. No matter how much you try to "change behavior", there will still be the occasional "freakish" injury (as with Jablonski).

Making players more aware of the risk and enforcing the rules as written can go a long way towards preventing future situations like this. There was no urgent need to go to the major penalty. The HS League panicked because the spotlight was on them, pure and simple. They felt like they HAD to make a change, when in reality, the only change they needed to make was to make it clear that the refs NEED to start enforcing the rule book.

Why does the game "need" to continue to evolve? Does football need to evolve? There are more injuries in football compared to hockey. Does cheerleading need to evolve? There are more serious spinal injuries to cheerleaders than hockey players. Does baseball need to evolve? How many players get drilled in the head with baseballs every year?

The game of hockey does NOT need to evolve. It's a great game the way it is. The only problem is that the refs weren't calling the game according to how the rules are written. Lengthening the penalty in minutes won't mean squat if the refs don't make the calls.

As a non-hockey player, I have known multiple hockey players who have had to quit playing hockey because of the number of concussions they have had. "Life long injury" doesn't just refer to a player getting paralyzed, it can refer to many of the brain injuries players end up with, many of them from playing only high school hockey.

Based on what I have read from others on this board and what I've seen from watching teams like SSM and NTDP play, the game of hockey has evolved and we in MN aren't evolving with it. Watch a SSM game; they are more physical than any HS team you will see play, but they also play finesse hockey. That is where hockey around the world seems to be, we need to catch up.

I don't know if this is too far of a jump or not, but it may have something to do with the decline in the number of players we have that are rated really well nationally.

Minnesota is turning out more skilled players for the NHL than ever before!! How do you figure there is a decline??

[JSR]

There is one logical, sensible reply in all these posts and that is north_bear, the rest are ridiculous, you all talk about the league overreacting, how about yourselves. We wont truly see the effects of these changes, until probably this time next year. Checking from behind is still checking from behind and head contact is still head contact and boarding is still boarding but obviously coaches and players hadnt got the message clearly about how dangerous these types of checks can be. Nothing has changed but the consequences for delivering these types of hits. I wonder how many of you would still be criticizing the MSHSL if it was your son or daughter you saw laying on ice motionless after one of these hits, you all come off as a bunch of selfish hypocrites. Yes the changes will change the game, to a better one and a safer one. Will it prevent all injuries, no of course not, but if it saves one kid from a serious concussion or being paralyzed then the new rules will have done their job. I have seen two games since the new rules came into place and I rather enjoyed seeing the kids back off a bit along the boards and it definetly did NOT changed the excitement of the game. In each game I saw there was one major penalty called, in one game the team with the power play did not score and in the other there was a ppg and a shg. I commend the MSHLS for doing the RIGHT thing....Nuff said

Tough to argue that a parent would be anything but devastated by such a terrible thing. However, that is not the discussion. Again, you are bringing emotion to it. I don't think that if you disagree with the steps the HS league has taken, that you can assume we don't care if kids get hurt. I care a great deal about the safety of the kids. I can't speak for the others on this board but as someone who works with young people on a daily basis it is actually the last thing I want to see. With that being said, I believe the increased consequences are a mistake and will contribute to the demise of mn HS hockey. I'm not a fortune teller I don't know if I'll be right, but based on my experiences of 30 years involved in hockey I know which way I'd bet. You see it as making the game safer, I see it as changing the game as we know it. No college, jr. or HS coach is going to agree with me openly because of the way people feel about this incident right now. Emotions are too high, but I bet more feel the way I do then you do. Why is that important? Because, a lot of these kids are playing HS hockey as an avenue of preparation to attain that level. Finally, what we are doing here on this forum is apples & oranges compared to the steps the MSHSL took. We aren't over reacting by having a discussion, over reacting is making change without having a discussion.

I'm a coach and couldn't disagree with you more. The refs weren't doing their jobs before and frankly the punishment was not stiff enough before for dangerous hits. The refs are now doing their jobs better but they are still human and change takes time. The penalties were not stiff enough and now they are appropriate.

As for higher level sof hockey, college hockey has gone to great lengths to get rid of hits to the head and you see stiff penalties being given out for those in gollege hockey all the time. Further CFB's and boarding are being called more tight in college and are being looked at for rules changes again as we speak at that level. At the NHL level, you don;t think that major rules changes are not happening there as well. If you don;t you are nuts. Sidney Crosby has put a spotlight on hitting in the NHl and major changes are coming you can bet on it. The changes the MHSHL made should be applauded and further they won;t ruin the game nor will they impeded anyones ability to play at a higher level, that is the biggest bunch of nonsense I've ever heard.

[muckandgrind]

There is one logical, sensible reply in all these posts and that is north_bear, the rest are ridiculous, you all talk about the league overreacting, how about yourselves. We wont truly see the effects of these changes, until probably this time next year. Checking from behind is still checking from behind and head contact is still head contact and boarding is still boarding but obviously coaches and players hadnt got the message clearly about how dangerous these types of checks can be. Nothing has changed but the consequences for delivering these types of hits. I wonder how many of you would still be criticizing the MSHSL if it was your son or daughter you saw laying on ice motionless after one of these hits, you all come off as a bunch of selfish hypocrites. Yes the changes will change the game, to a better one and a safer one. Will it prevent all injuries, no of course not, but if it saves one kid from a serious concussion or being paralyzed then the new rules will have done their job. I have seen two games since the new rules came into place and I rather enjoyed seeing the kids back off a bit along the boards and it definetly did NOT changed the excitement of the game. In each game I saw there was one major penalty called, in one game the team with the power play did not score and in the other there was a ppg and a shg. I commend the MSHLS for doing the RIGHT thing....Nuff said

Tough to argue that a parent would be anything but devastated by such a terrible thing. However, that is not the discussion. Again, you are bringing emotion to it. I don't think that if you disagree with the steps the HS league has taken, that you can assume we don't care if kids get hurt. I care a great deal about the safety of the kids. I can't speak for the others on this board but as someone who works with young people on a daily basis it is actually the last thing I want to see. With that being said, I believe the increased consequences are a mistake and will contribute to the demise of mn HS hockey. I'm not a fortune teller I don't know if I'll be right, but based on my experiences of 30 years involved in hockey I know which way I'd bet. You see it as making the game safer, I see it as changing the game as we know it. No college, jr. or HS coach is going to agree with me openly because of the way people feel about this incident right now. Emotions are too high, but I bet more feel the way I do then you do. Why is that important? Because, a lot of these kids are playing HS hockey as an avenue of preparation to attain that level. Finally, what we are doing here on this forum is apples & oranges compared to the steps the MSHSL took. We aren't over reacting by having a discussion, over reacting is making change without having a discussion.

I'm a coach and couldn't disagree with you more. The refs weren't doing their jobs before and frankly the punishment was not stiff enough before for dangerous hits. The refs are now doing their jobs better but they are still human and change takes time. The penalties were not stiff enough and now they are appropriate.

As for higher level sof hockey, college hockey has gone to great lengths to get rid of hits to the head and you see stiff penalties being given out for those in gollege hockey all the time. Further CFB's and boarding are being called more tight in college and are being looked at for rules changes again as we speak at that level. At the NHL level, you don;t think that major rules changes are not happening there as well. If you don;t you are nuts. Sidney Crosby has put a spotlight on hitting in the NHl and major changes are coming you can bet on it. The changes the MHSHL made should be applauded and further they won;t ruin the game nor will they impeded anyones ability to play at a higher level, that is the biggest bunch of nonsense I've ever heard.

...and I disagree with you...If you think refs were hesitant to make these calls before, just wait for a year or two and they will be even MORE hesitant to make the call BECAUSE of the stiffer penalty.

I'm already seeing some coaches giving refs a hard time over some of the major penalties being called, over time this will have an effect. We'll see the refs start to swallow their whistle on the "borderline" hits for fear of making a call that could determine the outcome of the game. Whereas in the past, it would've been easier to make the call because of the two minutes, now it will be tougher because of the automatic five minutes.

Rather than make all head contact and boarding an automatic five minute major, they should've gone to a double-minor. Much easier to call, IMO.

..and don't let the coaches off the hook. They have the power to police the players on their teams even if the refs won't.

[MNHockeyFan]

I'm already seeing some coaches giving refs a hard time over some of the major penalties being called, over time this will have an effect. We'll see the refs start to swallow their whistle on the "borderline" hits for fear of making a call that could determine the outcome of the game.

I can tell you that this is NOT happening at all at the D1 level. The refs are DEFINITELY not afraid to call a major if that's the way they see it. On "borderline" call situations the two referees will hold a brief conference by the penalty box area to discuss the play, and will then make a decision. When you see this happening, it seems like 9 times out of 10 they're going to call it a major.

The main reason why the stiffer penalties have been accepted in D1 is that the coaches are completely on board with it. This was just confirmed by Brad and Greg Shepard, who were the two guest speakers at the last Gopher Blueline Club meeting. I hope the same level of support eventually develops at the high school level. And the players better learn how to play aggressively WITHOUT taking dumb, dangerous penalties that result in their team having to play shorthanded for 5 minutes. There is one Gopher player who has NOT yet learned this, and it's is a big reason why he hasn't dressed for the last half-dozen games or so.

[muckandgrind]

I'm already seeing some coaches giving refs a hard time over some of the major penalties being called, over time this will have an effect. We'll see the refs start to swallow their whistle on the "borderline" hits for fear of making a call that could determine the outcome of the game.

I can tell you that this is NOT happening at all at the D1 level. The refs are DEFINITELY not afraid to call a major if that's the way they see it. On "borderline" call situations the two referees will hold a brief conference by the penalty box area to discuss the play, and will then make a decision. When you see this happening, it seems like 9 times out of 10 they're going to call it a major.

The main reason why the stiffer penalties have been accepted in D1 is that the coaches are completely on board with it. This was just confirmed by Brad and Greg Shepard, who were the two guest speakers at the last Gopher Blueline Club meeting. I hope the same level of support eventually develops at the high school level. And the players better learn how to play aggressively WITHOUT taking dumb, dangerous penalties that result in their team having to play shorthanded for 5 minutes. There is one Gopher player who has NOT yet learned this, and it's is a big reason why he hasn't dressed for the last half-dozen games or so.

You're forgetting one BIG difference between HS and D1 (and NHL). At the college and pro level, boarding can still be called for two minutes. They still give the refs some discretion. I still maintain that after the spotlight goes away (which it will over time), the coaches will wear the refs down to the point where they won't call the "borderline" stuff due to the severity of the penalty and we'll see things get worse in the long run.

If you want to really clean up the game, I say go after the coaches. They should be held more responsible than they are for the conduct of the players on their team. If a team received x number of penalties due to "dangerous hits", then the coaches should be suspended x number of games. IMO, THAT would get their attention more than anything else.

[oldschoolpuckster]

Ref makes the call or not! Minor or Major Penalty!

Bottom line is the kid laying on the ice has already been hit!

The players need to be properly instructed on their checking techniques!

I am sick of hearing this statement!!! Teaching proper checking techniques is like teaching proper skating, stick or shooting techniques...some kids are still not good at any of them!! I would assume most parents teach their kids that drugs are bad but I bet some of them still try them...........

This is going to be a fundamental change to the mindset of every player and is going to take a long time before it shows up.

I would like to see the punishment stiffer for the player, not so much on the team. That will have more of an impact on changing the way kids think if it is geared to show that they are not playing "the right way" and can't hide behind the team.