Private schools should play AA and step it up!

kicksave33 · Post by **kicksave33** » Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:32 pm

Good question:

hockeytribe wrote:Why does feel like a discussion about a commodity?

Answer: It feels that way because that's what it is.

For a moment, abandon the discussion re: the text of the MSHSL rule, and focus on the underlying issue of the thread: the recruiting done by SSP and other teams. And that recruiting is of a known commodity: hockey players. Dispense with: (1) the analysis of the letter of the MSHSL rule and (2) the abstract discussion of certain school districts' academics. Instead, call a spade a spade. We're talking about kids transferring from Edina, Albert Lea, Simley, or Woodbury to SSP (or other schools) for hockey as much as anything else.

Under MSHSL league rules, these transfers may be permissible and the nature of the coaches' contacts with players may be legit. But many transfers violate the intention of the rule, which was: eliminating the free agency nature of high school sports.

Bowhunter is right. So is gloveareoff (maybe people have different priorities in life). But MNHockey Fan is right too (If you arbitrarily put too many restrictions and impose artificial limits... they will choose a different route that they believe will help them advance to the next level) and the result will be mediocrity.

Zamman · Post by **Zamman** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:09 pm

Watch what you say about recruiting, the same rules apply to private schools as they do for public schools. Is someone transfers from a public to a private they still need to play JV or sit out a year. Unless they change their residence, and that includes moving next door...

observer · Post by **observer** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:42 pm

they still need to play JV or sit out a year.

Since that is the rule it will be interesting to track the number of transfers and what percent sit a season on JV, as the rule states, and what percent don't.

Cut Above · Post by **Cut Above** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:34 pm

observer wrote:
they still need to play JV or sit out a year.
Since that is the rule it will be interesting to track the number of transfers and what percent sit a season on JV, as the rule states, and what percent don't.

I assume you'll be handling/tracking this interesting stuff for us all? Half facetious and half for real as who has the time....(cross referencing rosters year to year, looking up addresses on county websites, spying)

allhoc11 · Post by **allhoc11** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:23 pm

observer wrote:
they still need to play JV or sit out a year.
Since that is the rule it will be interesting to track the number of transfers and what percent sit a season on JV, as the rule states, and what percent don't.

It seems much easier to leave a private school and play, then to move to one and play. If you look at the AHA roster the past few years, they had a few moves, the kids that left Mtka and EP both played varsity the next year, while they had a F/D (BSM) and a G(Eagan) move in, both had to play JV for a year.

MinnGirlsHockey · Post by **MinnGirlsHockey** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:28 pm

allhoc11 wrote:It seems much easier to leave a private school and play, then to move to one and play. If you look at the AHA roster the past few years, they had a few moves, the kids that left Mtka and EP both played varsity the next year, while they had a F/D (BSM) and a G(Eagan) move in, both had to play JV for a year.

I'm not following you entirely, as far as the private schools. Doesn't your first sentence refer to leaving a private, and second sentence refers to coming into a private? Maybe you can dumb it down for me, I'm not familiar with this particular situation...thanks.

allhoc11 · Post by **allhoc11** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:42 pm

MinnGirlsHockey wrote: I'm not following you entirely, as far as the private schools. Doesn't your first sentence refer to leaving a private, and second sentence refers to coming into a private? Maybe you can dumb it down for me, I'm not familiar with this particular situation...thanks.

You are correct the first sentence is the school the players went to and played year 1 after transfer, the second is the community they came from and both had to sit one year. I just didn't want to get into names as you never know why these decisions are made, and I don't think it's fair to call out the players. However I do feel that if the MSHSL is going to put a rule in place is should be enforced consistently from school to school.

Cut Above · Post by **Cut Above** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:31 pm

allhoc11 wrote:
MinnGirlsHockey wrote: I'm not following you entirely, as far as the private schools. Doesn't your first sentence refer to leaving a private, and second sentence refers to coming into a private? Maybe you can dumb it down for me, I'm not familiar with this particular situation...thanks.
You are correct the first sentence is the school the players went to and played year 1 after transfer, the second is the community they came from and both had to sit one year. I just didn't want to get into names as you never know why these decisions are made, and I don't think it's fair to call out the players. However I do feel that if the MSHSL is going to put a rule in place is should be enforced consistently from school to school.

Shouldn't we then assume since"you never know why these decisions are made" that the MSHSL rules were followed? I'm 100% certain (with no proof) the rules weren't blatantly ignored.

Cut Above · Post by **Cut Above** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:39 pm

allhoc11 wrote:
observer wrote:
they still need to play JV or sit out a year.
Since that is the rule it will be interesting to track the number of transfers and what percent sit a season on JV, as the rule states, and what percent don't.
It seems much easier to leave a private school and play, then to move to one and play. If you look at the AHA roster the past few years, they had a few moves, the kids that left Mtka and EP both played varsity the next year, while they had a F/D (BSM) and a G(Eagan) move in, both had to play JV for a year.

CONSPIRACY THEORY

I would love to know details on how the MTKA and EP gals that were both eligible to play Varsity after leaving AHA? This was just part of what decimated that program. My only thought is financial hardship because that's the easiest but could be wrong?

Is it possible that those who complain about the advantages Private Schools have ALSO have a disadvantage? That disadvantage being, does MSHSL allow hardship transfers "at will" leaving those programs potentially vulnerable? Is that MSHSL's big gotcha? I'm not saying this to be true, but is it possible?

"I'll hang up and listen, thanks"

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:30 pm

Cut Above wrote:Is it possible that those who complain about the advantages Private Schools have ALSO have a disadvantage? That disadvantage being, does MSHSL allow hardship transfers "at will" leaving those programs potentially vulnerable? Is that MSHSL big gotcha? I'm not saying this to be true, but is it possible?

"I'll hang up and listen, thanks"

I think you are right in that financial hardship can only be argued for private-to-public transfers, and not the other way around. But I don't have any idea how many of these have been granted over the past 3-4 years, or what "evidence" has to be presented in order to qualify for such an exemption.

In any case it's safe to say that the recession and continued high unemployment has affected some parents whose kids attend private schools, including girls who happen to play hockey. Of course how many we'll never know, because it's not public information, nor should it be!

Tigers33 · Post by **Tigers33** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:13 am

So are you saying someone left holy angels and was able to play varsity? If I understand correctly you are saying Minnetonka and Eden prairie. Well my first question is...were they really good enough cause AHA was bad, lol.

Ok, seriously now. Where do they live? If they live in those communities than no they don't have to sit a year.

KeenObserver · Post by **KeenObserver** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:31 am

Tigers33 wrote: If they live in those communities than no they don't have to sit a year.

That is incorrect

Larry Blackstone · Post by **Larry Blackstone** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:17 pm

Delete

mnhcp · Post by **mnhcp** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:33 pm

Delete

allhoc11 · Post by **allhoc11** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:11 pm

Larry Blackstone wrote: The spirit of the rule is to not make transfers easy but not impossible. So folks, let's get over it.
Good luck to those girls!

I'm not sure I know the spirit of the rule, I feel like a lot of decisions the MSHSL makes it was a knee jerk reaction to the increased student athlete movement.

I didn't mean to call any attention to any athletes in particular, and I'm sorry if I did. I only wanted to illustrate two things. First contrary to the point of this thread I feel private schools are at a disadvantage due to the economic state right now (unless the school has significant scholarship opportunities for athletes). Second to point out that while the rule is in place there are ways around it. It's my strong belief the kids who are hurt the most by this rule are ones who make a school move for strictly academic reasons. They are not motivated by sports, and usually end up sitting out, while the people who move for strictly athletic purposes are still able to find a loophole (it's fewer now), but it still happens. I probably didn't do any justice to that second point in my first post though.