Would also add that I've personally seen Irondale play many times over the past 7-8 years, dating back to the very early Meghan Lorence and Gina McDonald days. Over those years I've developed a ton of respect for their coaching staff. From what I've been able to observe, their coaches have consistently been able to get much better results than you would ever expect, given the overall talent level (and youth in their roster) they've had to work with.
Over this time frame the coaches have been been fortunate to have had some very talented players - which obviously includes Miss Donovan currently - and have also been blessed with very good goaltending. If they've been missing anything it's been a lack of depth, which has definitely been the key issue when they've gone up against the state's top teams.
When you look at their recent results, especially considering the "demographics" (and also how their boys' team has done recently) they have definitely exceeded any reasonable expectations. Given all the above, I find it hard to criticize that they've run up the score against a few recent opponents, many of which could very easily find themselves to be in a similar position in a few years.
Irondale
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
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RailingWizardofOZ
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:31 pm
First, hats off to Knight7 for not biting at the apple. I can only assume through some posts here that he is a father of a player within the program and people know that. This is a subject he has no control over, as it was a coaching decision, and for him not to defend and/or criticize those choices shows his class and respect to his daughter’s program. Coaches coach, players play, parents cheer…………..and we here can comment!! Lol
Sometimes the numbers within the game stats can be smoke and mirrors, not really telling the whole story. My opinion on this of course is only based on my own experience and my beliefs on it from my time in coaching over past years. I too raised an eyebrow when I looked at the game stats after reading this topic. Not knowing if their JV team had a game at a different location that night (due to St. Louis Park not having the numbers to field a JV….unless that has changed this season) it is hard to critique not using those players. If JV did not have a game that evening, then there is a good question as to why not have those players on reserve and use them as the game is in hand?
In past programs, we as a staff obviously know ahead of time those games that will be potential blow outs. Each program I have coached within have had a few different philosophies on this, however, they have all made a decision with respect for our opponent. There was many times where the first line would get the plug pulled after the first period once the score reached a 3 or 4 goal lead (# of goals depending on the strength of opponent). It was an obvious lead that would not be lost as the game continued, and those players would only continue to score if they remained on the ice. On nights JV played prior, those 3 lines would each get an extra period, or even against the weaker teams, the top line of JV players would play a 2 & 2 for that evening, while the next 2 lines played a 3 & 1. Games against teams without a JV we would bring the entire team and have them ready depending on how the game progressed. There were even times where the top players in the first period would not shoot the puck as often as they could, and when asked, the response was “we know if we score that we might not get another shift or have to sit”.
I do not know if there were other factors that added to this situation. Did Irondale request to only play them once in the season for 4 conference points, thus allowing them to schedule that other game against a stronger opponent and St. Louis Park’s coaching staff refused? Not that running the score on a team to prove a point is the right alternative, but could have played into this.
It looks as well that there was a similar situation the game prior against Duluth when looking at those stats and seeing the names and timing in scoring column for the 3rd period. At least in that game it appears that the shots were lower, showing that maybe some steps were made to keep the score reasonable. However, I personally agree that when a game is in hand, that is a perfect opportunity to build the depth in your line up (even strength and especially PP). Top players on the ice late in those games runs the risk of developing bad habits rather than improvements, proof in point being my story earlier about top players not wanting to shoot cause they are worried they will score. Yes, having the time and space to cycle and create plays may improve their game, but having it done in slower situations that they won’t often see in other games and passing on shots does not develop, and only (IMHO) is degrading to the other team. I personally was always more insulted to watch the top players on the ice in those lopsided games essentially playing keep away from our players and not shooting on obvious chances.
Sometimes the numbers within the game stats can be smoke and mirrors, not really telling the whole story. My opinion on this of course is only based on my own experience and my beliefs on it from my time in coaching over past years. I too raised an eyebrow when I looked at the game stats after reading this topic. Not knowing if their JV team had a game at a different location that night (due to St. Louis Park not having the numbers to field a JV….unless that has changed this season) it is hard to critique not using those players. If JV did not have a game that evening, then there is a good question as to why not have those players on reserve and use them as the game is in hand?
In past programs, we as a staff obviously know ahead of time those games that will be potential blow outs. Each program I have coached within have had a few different philosophies on this, however, they have all made a decision with respect for our opponent. There was many times where the first line would get the plug pulled after the first period once the score reached a 3 or 4 goal lead (# of goals depending on the strength of opponent). It was an obvious lead that would not be lost as the game continued, and those players would only continue to score if they remained on the ice. On nights JV played prior, those 3 lines would each get an extra period, or even against the weaker teams, the top line of JV players would play a 2 & 2 for that evening, while the next 2 lines played a 3 & 1. Games against teams without a JV we would bring the entire team and have them ready depending on how the game progressed. There were even times where the top players in the first period would not shoot the puck as often as they could, and when asked, the response was “we know if we score that we might not get another shift or have to sit”.
I do not know if there were other factors that added to this situation. Did Irondale request to only play them once in the season for 4 conference points, thus allowing them to schedule that other game against a stronger opponent and St. Louis Park’s coaching staff refused? Not that running the score on a team to prove a point is the right alternative, but could have played into this.
It looks as well that there was a similar situation the game prior against Duluth when looking at those stats and seeing the names and timing in scoring column for the 3rd period. At least in that game it appears that the shots were lower, showing that maybe some steps were made to keep the score reasonable. However, I personally agree that when a game is in hand, that is a perfect opportunity to build the depth in your line up (even strength and especially PP). Top players on the ice late in those games runs the risk of developing bad habits rather than improvements, proof in point being my story earlier about top players not wanting to shoot cause they are worried they will score. Yes, having the time and space to cycle and create plays may improve their game, but having it done in slower situations that they won’t often see in other games and passing on shots does not develop, and only (IMHO) is degrading to the other team. I personally was always more insulted to watch the top players on the ice in those lopsided games essentially playing keep away from our players and not shooting on obvious chances.
Rail "Yes, having the time and space to cycle and create plays may improve their game, but having it done in slower situations that they won’t often see in other games and passing on shots does not develop, and only (IMHO) is degrading to the other team. I personally was always more insulted to watch the top players on the ice in those lopsided games essentially playing keep away from our players and not shooting on obvious chances."
I agree with this quite a bit and have commented the same once or twice over the years. I've been on both ends of the stick, both for myself, and some of my kids' games and I personally find the keep-away games insulting as well. If you're losing, tell the winning team to keep playing the game the way it was meant to be played. Substitute other players and have them play the game the way it was meant to be played, but don't pity us. On the winning side, I've subbed players and had them play straight up, too, and actually have been thanked by a couple of opposing coaches over the years for balancing "honoring the game" with respect for your opponents. I know nothing of this specific situation so can't comment on it, but there are certainly ways to manage this type of situation and do it with both class and respect, if you really want to.
I agree with this quite a bit and have commented the same once or twice over the years. I've been on both ends of the stick, both for myself, and some of my kids' games and I personally find the keep-away games insulting as well. If you're losing, tell the winning team to keep playing the game the way it was meant to be played. Substitute other players and have them play the game the way it was meant to be played, but don't pity us. On the winning side, I've subbed players and had them play straight up, too, and actually have been thanked by a couple of opposing coaches over the years for balancing "honoring the game" with respect for your opponents. I know nothing of this specific situation so can't comment on it, but there are certainly ways to manage this type of situation and do it with both class and respect, if you really want to.
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Nevertoomuchhockey
- Posts: 1138
- Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:59 pm
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