Transfer disputes

[almostashappy]

If its about academics, then they should be happy to be in Edina for their schools and satisfied playing JV for a year. Heck, if it really is about academics then you wouldn't have left SPA in the first place, If your going to try and cheat the system I suggest you don't pick Edina to do it.
The parents and school district are too smart for this.

You can go a bit farther back than that...if it really was about academics, he wouldn't have left ISD196/Eagan.

[Blahblahblogger]

I was not implying that this new student came for academics, clearly the driving factor was hockey. Although, based on the fact he is in class with my son, he must also be doing well academically. I am simply saying, as an attorney, the intelligent move would have been to clear this kid to play and iron out the facts after. The AD should have taken care of this at the time of enrollment for this new student. That is his job. I would also argue that the intelligent parents in Edina are not the ones arguing this issue. The parents raising a stink about this and putting pressure on the AD are cut from the same cloth as the new kids family. JV kid that wants to play varsity and doesn't want to lose the spot to new kid. Unfortunately, the family (I've only seen him, maybe legal guardian) did buy a house to live in and are in the right to play. Don't like it, change the rule! As a resident, please keep buying property in Edina and raise the value of my home! Although, I am ashamed of my districts treatment of a child at this point.

[Froggy Richards]

I was not implying that this new student came for academics, clearly the driving factor was hockey. Although, based on the fact he is in class with my son, he must also be doing well academically. I am simply saying, as an attorney, the intelligent move would have been to clear this kid to play and iron out the facts after. The AD should have taken care of this at the time of enrollment for this new student. That is his job. I would also argue that the intelligent parents in Edina are not the ones arguing this issue. The parents raising a stink about this and putting pressure on the AD are cut from the same cloth as the new kids family. JV kid that wants to play varsity and doesn't want to lose the spot to new kid. Unfortunately, the family (I've only seen him, maybe legal guardian) did buy a house to live in and are in the right to play. Don't like it, change the rule! As a resident, please keep buying property in Edina and raise the value of my home! Although, I am ashamed of my districts treatment of a child at this point.

That's not necessarily the case. You can't just simply buy a house in a new District and play Varsity sports there. This was put in for a reason. Otherwise, any wealthy family could buy up properties and move their kids around at will, depending on which team was looking good that year. It has to be a legitimate move. Sell the previous house and entire family moves and makes it their residence. Obviously, this was not met to the satisfaction of the AD, which is his discretion. He knows the kid moved for hockey and hockey alone, so he's obviously skeptical. He's doing his job. If the kid is being treated unfairly, then the family has recourse, they can sue the school district. Sounds like they already have a lawyer available who believes in their cause. Take the case!

And the intelligent move would be to clear him and iron out the facts later? Ask Achiever Academy how that worked out for them last year.

[almostashappy]

Unfortunately, the family (I've only seen him, maybe legal guardian) did buy a house to live in and are in the right to play. Don't like it, change the rule! As a resident, please keep buying property in Edina and raise the value of my home! Although, I am ashamed of my districts treatment of a child at this point.

To echo Froggy's cross-post...the rule isn't as cut and dried as you portray it. You need to do more than just buy some residential real estate in the new attendance area.

From MSHSL web site, (http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/news/eligquestions.htm?ne=33) a student is immediately eligible to play varsity if...(my italics)

Family Residence Change: the student transfers from one public school district attendance area to another public school district attendance area at any time during the calendar year in which there is a change of residence and occupancy in Minnesota by the student’s parents. If the student’s parents move from one public school district attendance area to another public school district attendance area, the student will be eligible in the new public school attendance area or a non-public school if the student transfers at the same time the student’s parents move.

I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV, but there seems to be a two-part test here:

1) Did the parents change their residence and occupancy to a location within the new attendance area?; and, if so,

2) Did the student transfer to the new school at the same time that the parents changed their "residence and occupancy"?

The "at the same time" language could be a sticky point. Let's say that the parents rent an apartment in Edina in August, and enroll little Johnny into Edina High using that apartment as a home address. To meet the two-part test, the parents had to have been out of their old house (let's say that it's in Eagan) and established residency and occupancy within that Edina apartment before Johnny starts his first day of classes at his new school. They don't have to had sold their old house by that date; it could still be on the market now. They just can't have "resided" within or "occupied" the old house once Johnny transfers.

You might call it the sock drawer test...on Johnny's first day at his new school, where were his parent's socks?

[Rich Clarke]

I would have thought that a player could get clearance from the MSHSL and that would end the issue for all involved. Or does the school need to risk making a mistake before the MSHSL will weigh in? It's entirely reasonable and prudent to not allow a transfer to play if his eligibility is suspect, but I would think the ruling would be that he can't play until cleared by the MSHSL. Is that what is going on here? Is he on JV pending an eligibility decision? Or is the AD declaring him ineligible regardless of what the MSHSL does? It just seems that the simple solution would be that the MSHSL issue a decision and take it out of the AD's hands. If he's right, as he certainly may be, then there's no cause to complain. If the kid is ruled eligible, then he should be promoted if his play justifies it. I would think there would be such a common sense procedure. Or is the issue dead this year absent legal (as opposed to administrative) action? Can anyone with knowledge answer these questions or shed some light? Thanks.

[Blahblahblogger]

Rich Clarke! Your logic and reasoning super cedes that of many! Thanks, would you like to be the Edina AD

[Blahblahblogger]

Pretty sure the father is an older gentlemen, it's quite plausible that he bought this home to retire in.

[Blahblahblogger]

The family already has an attorney who is familiar with this law, not my area of expertise. Not sure if you're aware that certain attorney practice different law.

[Froggy Richards]

I would have thought that a player could get clearance from the MSHSL and that would end the issue for all involved. Or does the school need to risk making a mistake before the MSHSL will weigh in? It's entirely reasonable and prudent to not allow a transfer to play if his eligibility is suspect, but I would think the ruling would be that he can't play until cleared by the MSHSL. Is that what is going on here? Is he on JV pending an eligibility decision? Or is the AD declaring him ineligible regardless of what the MSHSL does? It just seems that the simple solution would be that the MSHSL issue a decision and take it out of the AD's hands. If he's right, as he certainly may be, then there's no cause to complain. If the kid is ruled eligible, then he should be promoted if his play justifies it. I would think there would be such a common sense procedure. Or is the issue dead this year absent legal (as opposed to administrative) action? Can anyone with knowledge answer these questions or shed some light? Thanks.

It would be great if it worked that way, but it doesn't. The MSHSL does not have a compliance department or anyone on the staff who investigates or is in charge of these things. They rely on self reporting from the AD's. It is completely up to the AD to determine eligibility. If there is an issue and it is reported to the MSHSL, they simply contact the AD and ask them to look into it. This is what happened with Achiever Academy last year. The MSHSL never did issue a ruling or do anything. After being contacted by the MSHSL amid all of the scrutiny, the AD at the school simply ruled them ineligible. They forfeited all of their previous games, and the team sat out the rest of the playoffs. I have never heard of a case where the MSHSL issued any type of ruling on something like this, but I could be wrong.

I have no horse in this race, but you have to understand where the AD is coming from here. He knows the kid moved for Hockey alone. If he has any doubts whatsoever about the kid's eligibility, he's not going to risk Edina's entire hockey season over it. He's erring on the side of caution, which I think anybody would do in that situation. Tough break for the kid, but whether we like it or not, kids are negatively affected every day by the decisions that their parents make.

[WestMetro]

Agree with TenoverPar. Maybe the JM discussion could be peeled out and changed to a thread on Transfer Disputes. Luke Dow also has one going on with Duluth East

In terms of 2015-16 potential early departs, see my Sept post below:

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:54 pm Post subject: Reply with quote


Maybe I missed this announcement some time ago when he committed to the Gophers, but anyway, Wait is your first official Whos Not Returning player for the 2015-2016 season.

http://www.hselitehockey.com/news_artic ... r_id=44822

Other potentials, for a first blush list of 15, include:

Mike Anderson
Matt Anderson
Fellows
Graham
Garin
Kierstad
Mattson
Middlestadt
Ryan Poehling
Sorenson
Swaney
Tufte
Zimmer

[Froggy Richards]

The family already has an attorney who is familiar with this law, not my area of expertise. Not sure if you're aware that certain attorney practice different law.

No, I wasn't. How could I know that? I'm just a guy on a forum who knows nothing about, "Academia."

No, it's obviously not your area of expertise, you've proven that with your posts. And there is no way you're a lawyer based on you saying the intelligent thing to do is "Act now and sort out the details later." You would have a lot of clients sitting in jail after following that advice. Nothing wrong with just being a guy who wants the kid to play varsity for Edina. Nobody would have held that against you.

[Blahblahblogger]

My apologies, perhaps a better solution would have been suggested that the AD figure this out when the student enrolled. This was not abruptly sprung on him. His negligence put the school in lose/lose situation. Risk compliance with the state high school league or risk not following the proper protocol with a student. They likely figured the odds were better taking on the family, I guess time will tell. For now, I am done with this. I have kids (who don't play hockey), a career, and a vacation to watch basketball in the Bahamas. I hope these dramas continue to float your boat. Remember, these are kids!

[Lazy Scout]

For having your kid just being a "classmate" of his you seem to know an awful lot about the situation..... they bought a house and moved legitimately , family already has an attorney, and knowing that the dad seems to be an older gentlemen. I also think its funny that you just happened to stumble across a hockey forum because your kids classmate has been treated unfairly in Edina hockey. I hope your vacation in the Bahamas lasts a lifetime and you go away for good.

[The Exiled One]

Hey karl(east), can you remove all the JM posts and put them in a "Dad takes on Edina HS and the MSHSL" thread? Thanks.

[Froggy Richards]

For having your kid just being a "classmate" of his you seem to know an awful lot about the situation..... they bought a house and moved legitimately , family already has an attorney, and knowing that the dad seems to be an older gentlemen. I also think its funny that you just happened to stumble across a hockey forum because your kids classmate has been treated unfairly in Edina hockey. I hope your vacation in the Bahamas lasts a lifetime and you go away for good.

You forgot that he stumbled onto this thread by doing an internet search of the kid's name, even though the kid's last name has never been posted here. I sniffed him out pretty easily by his first post. Then he just couldn't help himself, he kept on posting and revealing more and more so that everybody could see he was a fraud. I love it. You would think if somebody is trying to pretend they're something they're not, they would actually take the time to be good at it.

[gitter]

My apologies, perhaps a better solution would have been suggested that the AD figure this out when the student enrolled. This was not abruptly sprung on him. His negligence put the school in lose/lose situation. Risk compliance with the state high school league or risk not following the proper protocol with a student. They likely figured the odds were better taking on the family, I guess time will tell. For now, I am done with this. I have kids (who don't play hockey), a career, and a vacation to watch basketball in the Bahamas. I hope these dramas continue to float your boat. Remember, these are kids!

Seems your beef is with the Edina AD's lack of ability to make a timely decision, not with transfer rules, the MSHSL, or the opinion on this forum. As someone posted earlier, one looks no further than Achiever Academy for "let them play first and sort it out later" Perhaps the AD has been sorting through this since September and it took him 2 months to piece everything together before coming to his decision? Are you the assistant AD and are certain he just decided last week to look at the case? My guess is that the AD just didn't up and decide to "review" this case once the hockey season got going.

Aside from a timely decision, this scenario has already played out last year involving a Minnesota hockey player, 2 different high schools, 2 residences, and a hockey move to/from Omaha. Sound familiar? And guess what? That kid played JV last year, and is now eligible to play Varsity this year. As an attorney, you should be familiar with precedents.

Unlike you, I see this as win/win for Edina. 1, their season is guaranteed (as long as the player in question never touches the ice for a Varsity game) not to end in forfeiture. 2, it sets a tone for incoming athlete transfers. Don't try to game the system, we will not risk it, and we will pull your kid off the ice/floor/mat/pool at the last minute if we feel there is even a 0.5% chance of it ruining an Edina athletic season. If Connor Hurley, Anders Lee, et al can figure out how to transfer properly, so can you.

[Tenoverpar]

Perhaps this thread FURTHER belongs on the JV discussion board, considering the player in question is in fact a JV player.

If this kid goes to Holy Family, BSM, Duluth East..he's likely on the opening night Varsity roster.

[Froggy Richards]

Perhaps this thread FURTHER belongs on the JV discussion board, considering the player in question is in fact a JV player.

If this kid goes to Holy Family, BSM, Duluth East..he's likely on the opening night Varsity roster.

Probably not, since East is dealing with the exact same thing right now as we speak.

[almostashappy]

Perhaps this thread FURTHER belongs on the JV discussion board, considering the player in question is in fact a JV player.

If this kid goes to Holy Family, BSM, Duluth East..he's likely on the opening night Varsity roster.

But is he a JV player because of eligibility issues?

This is about a transfer dispute. There's at least one of these kind of discussion threads every year. This case is particularly interesting, if there's truth behind the notion that the Edina AD declared a kid who had already made the varsity team ineligible. Usually it's a wink and a nudge.

[Sats81]

and i'm never gonna get the 10 mins of my life back it took to read this thread. Wow.

[OneMoreYear]

For having your kid just being a "classmate" of his you seem to know an awful lot about the situation..... they bought a house and moved legitimately , family already has an attorney, and knowing that the dad seems to be an older gentlemen. I also think its funny that you just happened to stumble across a hockey forum because your kids classmate has been treated unfairly in Edina hockey. I hope your vacation in the Bahamas lasts a lifetime and you go away for good.

You forgot that he stumbled onto this thread by doing an internet search of the kid's name, even though the kid's last name has never been posted here. I sniffed him out pretty easily by his first post. Then he just couldn't help himself, he kept on posting and revealing more and more so that everybody could see he was a fraud. I love it. You would think if somebody is trying to pretend they're something they're not, they would actually take the time to be good at it.

You know what they say. . ."the alleged lawyer who represents himself on a forum board has a real idiot for a client."

[notTONIGHT]

For having your kid just being a "classmate" of his you seem to know an awful lot about the situation..... they bought a house and moved legitimately , family already has an attorney, and knowing that the dad seems to be an older gentlemen. I also think its funny that you just happened to stumble across a hockey forum because your kids classmate has been treated unfairly in Edina hockey. I hope your vacation in the Bahamas lasts a lifetime and you go away for good.

You forgot that he stumbled onto this thread by doing an internet search of the kid's name, even though the kid's last name has never been posted here. I sniffed him out pretty easily by his first post. Then he just couldn't help himself, he kept on posting and revealing more and more so that everybody could see he was a fraud. I love it. You would think if somebody is trying to pretend they're something they're not, they would actually take the time to be good at it.

You know what they say. . ."the alleged lawyer who represents himself on a forum board has a real idiot for a client."

HEYYYY TROUT, found ya a lawyer over here!!!

[TheInsider]

Why are we talking about this JM Edina JV kid on the Who's not coming back discussion...the topic has been hijacked. Rosters are posted and season's under way....

Time to start the Who's not coming in 15-16 thread

Topic has been hijacked?? This is the topic!!

[Whiner33]

You forgot that he stumbled onto this thread by doing an internet search of the kid's name, even though the kid's last name has never been posted here. I sniffed him out pretty easily by his first post. Then he just couldn't help himself, he kept on posting and revealing more and more so that everybody could see he was a fraud. I love it. You would think if somebody is trying to pretend they're something they're not, they would actually take the time to be good at it.

You know what they say. . ."the alleged lawyer who represents himself on a forum board has a real idiot for a client."

HEYYYY TROUT, found ya a lawyer over here!!!

He's within driving distance as well!!

Roll that LeSabre down 169 TROUT!

[east hockey]

Why are we talking about this JM Edina JV kid on the Who's not coming back discussion...the topic has been hijacked. Rosters are posted and season's under way....

Time to start the Who's not coming in 15-16 thread

Topic has been hijacked?? This is the topic!!

The posts were previously part of another topic--I split them out and created this topic today.

Lee