MSHSL to vote on budget cuts

[stxnpux]

I am not sure if this has already been discussed here but there is currently a motion underway at the MSHSL to possibly cut the HS Hockey schedule by up to 5 games due to on going budget cuts across the state.

There has to be another way. 5 games is huge considering they only play a 24 game schedule now. If this is something that concerns you PLEASE! PLEASE! contact your AD's and appropriate MSHSL directors and tell them how you feel about it. My understanding is this vote is supposed to take place on March 2nd so there isn't much time. We need to get the word out to find another way!

[PuckRanger]

This is 100% true, folks! Dropping to a 20 game schedule would do a great deal of damage to high school hockey in Minnesota. Some teams could barely play their conference schedule in this scenario. More kids will bolt for juniors and other options - 25 games is not enough as it is!

This can't be allowed to happen! Make your phone calls, folks!!!

[RLStars]

This is 100% true, folks! Dropping to a 20 game schedule would do a great deal of damage to high school hockey in Minnesota. Some teams could barely play their conference schedule in this scenario. More kids will bolt for juniors and other options - 25 games is not enough as it is!

This can't be allowed to happen! Make your phone calls, folks!!!

Here's an idea:
How about MnHockey step in an get the Super teams concept going. We could have before and after the HS season Midget teams that can earn the right to go and represent Minnkota at Nationals.

MnHockey could set up a league with two teams per HS section and have games played before the season (like Elite I) and have a play-off set up after the HS State tournament.

This could keep the kids playing a reduced schedule for their HS teams and let them get the extra games needed to compete with a Juniors or Midget schedule. That would potential keep more players in Minnesota instead of leaving to play Juniors early. I think the East Coast operates in a similar manner.

[HShockeywatcher]

Curious if anyone knows how profit works from games. Let's assume $150/hr for ice time and 5 hours for JV/varsity. If 100 people go to the game, you've made roughly $500 from ticket sales, you open up the concession stand and you've broken even. There are activity fees, plus I'm guessing my numbers are off and there are games where much more than 100 people make it. So, where is cutting back going to save money? Couldn't you make more money extending it?

Also, I know it's just one idea, but reference my thread on different section ideas:
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19047
I don't have the numbers in front of me but I'm guessing the attendance for the first round blowout games is nothing like the next couple rounds. Plus, my way you'd have one less game per section and probably get more of a crowd.

Just a couple thoughts.

[Indians forever]

Curious if anyone knows how profit works from games. Let's assume $150/hr for ice time and 5 hours for JV/varsity. If 100 people go to the game, you've made roughly $500 from ticket sales, you open up the concession stand and you've broken even. There are activity fees, plus I'm guessing my numbers are off and there are games where much more than 100 people make it. So, where is cutting back going to save money? Couldn't you make more money extending it?

Also, I know it's just one idea, but reference my thread on different section ideas:
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19047
I don't have the numbers in front of me but I'm guessing the attendance for the first round blowout games is nothing like the next couple rounds. Plus, my way you'd have one less game per section and probably get more of a crowd.

Just a couple thoughts.

Good point watcher!!! High School Hockey is a money maker. I would like to see the books on this one!

[defense]

This is 100% true, folks! Dropping to a 20 game schedule would do a great deal of damage to high school hockey in Minnesota. Some teams could barely play their conference schedule in this scenario. More kids will bolt for juniors and other options - 25 games is not enough as it is!

This can't be allowed to happen! Make your phone calls, folks!!!

I agree, we should play as many games as possible however, if the price tag is too high.... Activities fees are going to rise probably regardless, this is sad. In a public high school no one should have to pay to play. I realize we've been paying forever, that is not my point. Would it be more damaging to Minnesota hockey to go to 5 fewer games, or , have less kids (or schools for that matter) able to participate????

[youngblood08]

This is 100% true, folks! Dropping to a 20 game schedule would do a great deal of damage to high school hockey in Minnesota. Some teams could barely play their conference schedule in this scenario. More kids will bolt for juniors and other options - 25 games is not enough as it is!

This can't be allowed to happen! Make your phone calls, folks!!!

Here's an idea:
How about MnHockey step in an get the Super teams concept going. We could have before and after the HS season Midget teams that can earn the right to go and represent Minnkota at Nationals.

MnHockey could set up a league with two teams per HS section and have games played before the season (like Elite I) and have a play-off set up after the HS State tournament.

This could keep the kids playing a reduced schedule for their HS teams and let them get the extra games needed to compete with a Juniors or Midget schedule. That would potential keep more players in Minnesota instead of leaving to play Juniors early. I think the East Coast operates in a similar manner.

There is no Minnkota any more Minnesota is a stand alone USA hockey district. This idea is too late for the kids playing now.

Also has anyone read about the NHL giving $8 mil to USA hockey to create a Super League.

[EREmpireStrikesBack]

Curious if anyone knows how profit works from games. Let's assume $150/hr for ice time and 5 hours for JV/varsity. If 100 people go to the game, you've made roughly $500 from ticket sales, you open up the concession stand and you've broken even. There are activity fees, plus I'm guessing my numbers are off and there are games where much more than 100 people make it. So, where is cutting back going to save money? Couldn't you make more money extending it?

Also, I know it's just one idea, but reference my thread on different section ideas:
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19047
I don't have the numbers in front of me but I'm guessing the attendance for the first round blowout games is nothing like the next couple rounds. Plus, my way you'd have one less game per section and probably get more of a crowd.

Just a couple thoughts.

Transportation fees... refs... the list goes on.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but concession stand rarely, if ever, goes to the HS program. Youth association/whoever runs the rink usually gets those profits.

Cutting games for most teams (bar the big time programs that bring in a good # of fans) would save them money. Especially in the north where it is a trek to get to games. Do I agree with it? No, but it's a real possibility.

[Zamman]

Let's not forget the coaching staff, trainers and insurance. True not many teams get any money from the concessions. How about the rinks that are run by the schools. How much is volunteer and how much is added. COsts of ice is more like 175 - 200 an hour. Don't forget that the schools pay for the entire season, not just the games. Teams use 1 - 1 1/2 hours a day for practice. Times 2 for varsity and JV. 2 games a week does not pay for the while week of practice. Big games help, but they are few and far between.
The costs are huge and not much profit. A lot of teams do not draw like they used to. Richfield used to pack the house every game, now the student section is easily half what it was ten years ago. AHA has never had a student section, only parents. I wish both schools had the students show up, that is what makes the games fun. Lots of trash talk between schools and rowdieness.

[PuckRanger]

Curious if anyone knows how profit works from games. Let's assume $150/hr for ice time and 5 hours for JV/varsity. If 100 people go to the game, you've made roughly $500 from ticket sales, you open up the concession stand and you've broken even. There are activity fees, plus I'm guessing my numbers are off and there are games where much more than 100 people make it. So, where is cutting back going to save money? Couldn't you make more money extending it?

Also, I know it's just one idea, but reference my thread on different section ideas:
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19047
I don't have the numbers in front of me but I'm guessing the attendance for the first round blowout games is nothing like the next couple rounds. Plus, my way you'd have one less game per section and probably get more of a crowd.

Just a couple thoughts.

I believe the biggest cost saver the MSHSL is looking at is the travel expenses and paying of officials for those five games. Ice time isn't the issue, as teams will still practice on those extra days and thus still have the ice time expense. There are many more creative ways to make hockey more cost effective. Unfortunately, the MSHSL is and always has been poor in this area. Many teams could save money on their own simply by scheduling more local opponents - although many members of this board would have a field day with what would become of some team's strength of schedules. Its still a better option in my opinion than cutting games and pricing kids right out of the game.

[breakout]

How sad, in our sport we pay for the fields to be built. We follow that by renting the fields we built by the hour for inflated prices. Does this happen in football, basketball or lacrosse?

On top of that, we have our kids and parents go out and do fund raisers. A couple hundred dollar athletic fee ............ that is only the beginning.

We do all these things because we love the sport of hockey. Now, they want to pick our pockets and rob us again. As a group, shouldn't we have a problem with this?

Can anyone come up with contact information, phone numbers, emails, etc.?
Let's take it upon ourselves to bombard these people who know little about our sport with hundreds if not thousands of emails and put an end to this.

[Hockeyguy_27]

How sad, in our sport we pay for the fields to be built. We follow that by renting the fields we built by the hour for inflated prices. Does this happen in football, basketball or lacrosse?

On top of that, we have our kids and parents go out and do fund raisers. A couple hundred dollar athletic fee ............ that is only the beginning.

We do all these things because we love the sport of hockey. Now, they want to pick our pockets and rob us again. As a group, shouldn't we have a problem with this?

Can anyone come up with contact information, phone numbers, emails, etc.?
Let's take it upon ourselves to bombard these people who know little about our sport with hundreds if not thousands of emails and put an end to this.

This ticks me off as well. Here is a possible solution. Have each team play 2 games on outdoor ice like the Winter Classic. If it is truly about the hockey, they will do this.

Old time hockey! Dit Clapper, Toe Blake, Eddie Shore

[HShockeywatcher]

When you pay for the ice, what does that include? I would have assumed (sounds like a bad one) that ice time would be different for games and practice and refs and EMTs and such would come with you ticket price...

Couple ideas:
1. Could it be as simple as saying the communities/programs that can afford to play as many games can continue to? Right now some teams still only schedule 15 games for various reasons. If certain teams need to cut back, they still could.
2. Is it as simple as upping the activity fee? Hockey's an expensive sport, we all know that. If someone wants there kid to play, they should have to pay relative to what the actual cost is.
3. This is out there, but would it be cost effective in the long run for schools to have their own ice rinks? Communities that don't even have swim teams have pools. Many schools have multiple basketball courts. You could have skating in gym class and use it in more ways, then you'd never have to pay for ice time.
4. Those who can afford to could help chip in for others. Not sure how it would work, but there could be a general statewide fund raiser of sorts and split the money evenly to help everyone out.

There are so many communities/programs where hockey is continuing to dwindle. In our economy helping to lift up those communities and get them going again would be so great if we could.

[youngblood08]

Bottomline there are a couple of pro teams that don't bring in as many fans or as much money on one weekend like the high hockey tourney does. So where does all of that money go? Lou Nanne said on that Ice Dreams show on Fox that he was getting more money for the state tourney then he was doing a whole season of play by play for the North Stars.

This will ruin High School hockey even more.

[karl(east)]

If this goes through, I'm scared for the future of HS hockey. Not only does it make the season much less interesting, the real damage would probably come through how it influences players' decisions over their futures. Given 5 less games, I could completely understand why a number of the best players would bolt for juniors or more appealing alternatives. Bringing down the talent level would probably only further reduce profits, and we could end up in a nasty cycle.

But hey, we're one of 4 states in the country whose state HS league supports synchronized swimming!

[TCQQL]

How sad, in our sport we pay for the fields to be built. We follow that by renting the fields we built by the hour for inflated prices. Does this happen in football, basketball or lacrosse?

On top of that, we have our kids and parents go out and do fund raisers. A couple hundred dollar athletic fee ............ that is only the beginning.

We do all these things because we love the sport of hockey. Now, they want to pick our pockets and rob us again. As a group, shouldn't we have a problem with this?

Can anyone come up with contact information, phone numbers, emails, etc.?
Let's take it upon ourselves to bombard these people who know little about our sport with hundreds if not thousands of emails and put an end to this.

I did a little checking and Craig Perry is on the Activity, Activity Rules Interpretations and Activity Advisory Committees at MSHSL for Ice Hockey. Here is his email address: cperry@mshsl.org .... It could not hurt to email him and express our concerns.

[RLStars]

This is 100% true, folks! Dropping to a 20 game schedule would do a great deal of damage to high school hockey in Minnesota. Some teams could barely play their conference schedule in this scenario. More kids will bolt for juniors and other options - 25 games is not enough as it is!

This can't be allowed to happen! Make your phone calls, folks!!!

Here's an idea:
How about MnHockey step in an get the Super teams concept going. We could have before and after the HS season Midget teams that can earn the right to go and represent Minnkota at Nationals.

MnHockey could set up a league with two teams per HS section and have games played before the season (like Elite I) and have a play-off set up after the HS State tournament.

This could keep the kids playing a reduced schedule for their HS teams and let them get the extra games needed to compete with a Juniors or Midget schedule. That would potential keep more players in Minnesota instead of leaving to play Juniors early. I think the East Coast operates in a similar manner.

There is no Minnkota any more Minnesota is a stand alone USA hockey district. This idea is too late for the kids playing now.

Also has anyone read about the NHL giving $8 mil to USA hockey to create a Super League.

It is too late for the kids playing now, but could be done in a year or two. Minnesota may now be on its own, but that shouldn't stop it. MnHockey is already talking about having Super AAA teams, since it seems that there is a AAA movement going on in youth hockey. It would only make sense to have MnHockey start up a Midget league as a before and after season. Right now, I believe Shattuck gets the Natioanls nod to represent Minnesota.

[stxnpux]

How sad, in our sport we pay for the fields to be built. We follow that by renting the fields we built by the hour for inflated prices. Does this happen in football, basketball or lacrosse?

On top of that, we have our kids and parents go out and do fund raisers. A couple hundred dollar athletic fee ............ that is only the beginning.

We do all these things because we love the sport of hockey. Now, they want to pick our pockets and rob us again. As a group, shouldn't we have a problem with this?

Can anyone come up with contact information, phone numbers, emails, etc.?
Let's take it upon ourselves to bombard these people who know little about our sport with hundreds if not thousands of emails and put an end to this.

Here is a link for contact info for all of the section reps: http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/aboutmshsl.asp?page=5

Here is a link to the MSHSL staff contact info: http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/aboutmshsl.asp?page=3

Please take the time to contact the appropriate individuals for you on this list and let them know your feelings. Please remember that it will be helpful to provide alternative options that they can use as arguments against the cuts!

[seek & destroy]

Transportation fees... refs... the list goes on.

Cutting games for most teams (bar the big time programs that bring in a good # of fans) would save them money. Especially in the north where it is a trek to get to games. Do I agree with it? No, but it's a real possibility.

Before eliminating games they need to try and think outside the box and find other solutions to the cost issue. Teams could eliminate some practice time (saving ice costs) or share time with JV and Varsity on the ice together some days. Putting JV in a different league and reduce some of their game numbers (more local competition). Nothing should say that JV and Varsity always play the same opponents back to back. Eliminate or reduce transportation when the team is traveling less than 15 miles to a game site.

The very last option should be the elimination of 5 games. I agree with an earlier post that before you do that, at a minimum allow teams to continue to play the same number of games but have the official school schedule be reduced. Perhaps allowing more non-conference or tournament style play that booster groups would have to help pay for. Not a good solution but better than mandating that everyone have 5 less games.

[PuckRanger]

Here is a link to contact the MSHSL Board of Directors. Contact any and all that are relevant to your area and let your voice be heard.

http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/aboutMSHSL.asp?page=5

You should be able to call or email a handful of these people, regardless of where you are from. If everyone does their part, we can help the coaches association fight this potential change.

Talking about it here won't do anyone any good. Voice your opinions to these folks who are making the decision!

[TCQQL]

Does anyone know if it is possible to set up a petition here that could be signed and emailed to MSHSL? Or maybe FollowThePuck could do this. Any ideas?

[Goldy Gopher]

When you pay for the ice, what does that include? I would have assumed (sounds like a bad one) that ice time would be different for games and practice and refs and EMTs and such would come with you ticket price...

Couple ideas:
1. Could it be as simple as saying the communities/programs that can afford to play as many games can continue to? Right now some teams still only schedule 15 games for various reasons. If certain teams need to cut back, they still could.
2. Is it as simple as upping the activity fee? Hockey's an expensive sport, we all know that. If someone wants there kid to play, they should have to pay relative to what the actual cost is.
3. This is out there, but would it be cost effective in the long run for schools to have their own ice rinks? Communities that don't even have swim teams have pools. Many schools have multiple basketball courts. You could have skating in gym class and use it in more ways, then you'd never have to pay for ice time.
4. Those who can afford to could help chip in for others. Not sure how it would work, but there could be a general statewide fund raiser of sorts and split the money evenly to help everyone out.

There are so many communities/programs where hockey is continuing to dwindle. In our economy helping to lift up those communities and get them going again would be so great if we could.

Great idea, instead of every school district in the state making cuts like they're currently having to, they should somehow find the money to build a rink at every school. But we can somehow find the money to do this by having kids skate in gym class. I can't believe no one has ever thought of this before.

The problem is that rinks are expensive to maintain. The cost of refrigeration and the fact that you have to zamboni after every session drives the cost through the roof. Which is exactly why you see football and basketball courts everywhere and no hockey rinks.

[HShockeywatcher]

Goldy Gopher,
-for one, they were all simple suggestions that I hadn't investigated into at all.
-and two, it would have to be something that is long term. Of course it would be expensive, but just think of all of the LONG TERM implications of that around MN. Yes, gym class is one (and no I wasn't saying that would be it), you could offer more lessons, more teams could have practice, you'd cut out travel time completely.
I don't know anything about the money and what it takes to maintain an ice rink, but if it were done right, it could basically be in use all day.

It was just a thought.

[Goldy Gopher]

Goldy Gopher,
-for one, they were all simple suggestions that I hadn't investigated into at all.
-and two, it would have to be something that is long term. Of course it would be expensive, but just think of all of the LONG TERM implications of that around MN. Yes, gym class is one (and no I wasn't saying that would be it), you could offer more lessons, more teams could have practice, you'd cut out travel time completely.
I don't know anything about the money and what it takes to maintain an ice rink, but if it were done right, it could basically be in use all day.

It was just a thought.

I didn't do any "investigation", I used common sense.

[HShockeywatcher]

What common sense is that? Where every building project yields a short term profit? Man, we should get you up here to Duluth to explain some things to everyone about the building plans for the next few years